There are also those who purchase to support the technology, even if they don't normally purchase that level of car. It's called voting with your dollars.
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Will it be bad to be early adopters of Roadsters?
- Thread starter Maximilien
- Start date
I fully realise the incremental changes you can make on the same platform. Tesla have been doing that too of course since 2012. But there comes a point where the platform itself is limiting. That's what happened with the original 911. By the late 80s the ageing original platform was seriously holding the development back. The 996 was a major platform step over the final 993 iteration of the original platform.
The Saab 900 platform was well out of its depth by the end and so was the 9000 in its later years. They simply didn't have the money to develop newer platforms fast enough to keep up with their competitors. In today's digital era, you can design new platforms far quicker than ever before. VAG now have about 4 or 5 different EV platforms coming over the next 5 years alone. It's a different world.
You can disagree as much as you like, but the Model S will not survive another 10+ years on the existing platform. It's just not going to happen.
I agree that none of the current Teslas will escape a body refresh in ten years (some much sooner), but wonder how much of that is actually fashion and the throw-away mentality that is prevalent today.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
No matter when you buy a Tesla, you can pretty much expect a better version of it to be coming out shortly.
They add configurations and take away other configurations all the time.
Nothing is guaranteed. You get the car, equipped the way it is stated on ordering day. Sometimes you will get an unexpected (and no charge) bonus if they integrate a running improvement before your car goes down the assembly line.
One advantage of Tesla's OTA update feature, is that there is a good chance your car will get additional upgrades over time, that can be installed via software.
Since I purchased my X in 2017 I have gotten:
Faster opening and closing Falcon Wing Doors
Automatic windshield wipers.
Automatic dimming headlights.
Uncorking to increase my 0-60 performance from 6.0 to 4.9 seconds (WOW!)
Better sounding stereo.
Additional music options.
More lowering/raising air suspension settings.
Creep motion to simulate a standard automatic transmission.
Far better Autopilot.
Additional sensor capabilities and warnings.
Automated emergency stopping.
Automatic dash dimming.
Additional Easter Eggs for Christmas dance mode, video games, fart on command, and Romance Mode.
Additional security and drive with pin option.
Maps now indicate congested areas and give WAZE like re routing if it will save time.
EAP got lane changes with turn signal, on and off freeway ramps and movement into faster lanes when available.
Probably some others, but the point is that while you may not get all the improvements that come over time with Tesla's constant self improvement policy, you indeed will have your car brought into the future in many instances.
They add configurations and take away other configurations all the time.
Nothing is guaranteed. You get the car, equipped the way it is stated on ordering day. Sometimes you will get an unexpected (and no charge) bonus if they integrate a running improvement before your car goes down the assembly line.
One advantage of Tesla's OTA update feature, is that there is a good chance your car will get additional upgrades over time, that can be installed via software.
Since I purchased my X in 2017 I have gotten:
Faster opening and closing Falcon Wing Doors
Automatic windshield wipers.
Automatic dimming headlights.
Uncorking to increase my 0-60 performance from 6.0 to 4.9 seconds (WOW!)
Better sounding stereo.
Additional music options.
More lowering/raising air suspension settings.
Creep motion to simulate a standard automatic transmission.
Far better Autopilot.
Additional sensor capabilities and warnings.
Automated emergency stopping.
Automatic dash dimming.
Additional Easter Eggs for Christmas dance mode, video games, fart on command, and Romance Mode.
Additional security and drive with pin option.
Maps now indicate congested areas and give WAZE like re routing if it will save time.
EAP got lane changes with turn signal, on and off freeway ramps and movement into faster lanes when available.
Probably some others, but the point is that while you may not get all the improvements that come over time with Tesla's constant self improvement policy, you indeed will have your car brought into the future in many instances.
CarlK
Active Member
Performance option was actually not that expensive in the beginning. It was something like ~15K but it also came with $4,500 worth of 21" wheels. Tesla raised price later on because it was so popular. The price is dictated by the market as it should be. You have to look at what other cars with similar performance upgrade would cost you. That premium is not excessive for people who want it.
Elon mentioned recently there will be even cheaper Tesla in maybe 3 years but I think he meant a new model. Base model 3 price is unlikely to go any lower but of course no one really knows.
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CarlK
Active Member
True. Blue jeans and polo shirts never go out of fashion. I do hope this next major update will be 2170 cell rather than cosmetic refreshing.
Okay let me predict that the next generation S/X platform/body will have improved torsional rigidity, improved passive crash safety, higher suspension installation stiffness, improved geometry, higher stiffness/weight ratio, improved aerodynamic drag and lift coefficients, improved cooling, reduced wind noise, more efficient cabin and luggage space, etc. It will also be more efficient in production too.
The end result will be a new level of chassis performance and refinement which would have been unfeasible on the older platform. Then from there the incremental improvements continue until the next big step change. That's how automotive progress goes. New platforms are developed and then incrementally improved during their life cycle. If you fall behind the pace of that development cycle compared to your competitors then your products soon become obsolete. I worked in F1 for many years, where all that was happening at a ridiculous pace throughout a single year. A whole new platform every season and then hundreds of incremental improvements during the year. In the production world timescales are much longer of course, but the same principles apply.
Engineering is not a throwaway fashion. There are certainly fashion elements to the exterior and interior styling, but it's a lot more than just that. The current S/X platform has been developed now since 2012 with numerous incremental upgrades along the way, but the tech marches on and I'm sure Tesla could now design a better fundamental platform to take it forward into the next decade. If that doesn't happen then the competition will catch up at some point.
In the end it was adding something like 40% to the cost of what was already a very expensive car that few people could actually afford. How hard is it to understand that the number of potential buyers drops off rapidly as the price goes up, regardless of the benefits. Lets say 100% of a nominal population can afford a $20k car, maybe 20% can afford a $50k car, only 5% can afford a $100k car and let's say 1% can afford a $140k car. So that's kind of the ratio they would naturally sell in. Maybe a few people could possibly stretch their budget for something that they think is worthwhile, but stretching from $100k to $140k is a very big stretch for those who are shopping with a nominal $100k budget. Obviously no problem for that 1% who can afford it without stretching.
So your statement above should really say "that premium is not excessive for people who want it AND can afford it." No problem for this guy, but most others would struggle.
Brando
Active Member
Can anyone name what actual "part/system" is only available in a new platform??
wheel base? width? tire width? (height can be suspension) - glass? I just can't see what is this platform. Seems just marketing BS.
So please tell us what these platform advances are?
note: FSD costs per unit will also drop with increasing volumes - just like car stereos did.
cloud computing costs also go down, right? volume/numbers do matter.
wheel base? width? tire width? (height can be suspension) - glass? I just can't see what is this platform. Seems just marketing BS.
So please tell us what these platform advances are?
note: FSD costs per unit will also drop with increasing volumes - just like car stereos did.
cloud computing costs also go down, right? volume/numbers do matter.
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Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Has Tesla ever said that there would even be a refresh for S and X? I hear a lot from the general public about it but I can't remember anything ever coming from Elon or Tesla.
Dan
Dan
No, there has not been an official announcement. I don't really expect one this year, but there is a remote possibility it could be announced as a "one more thing" on the 14th. Should that happen, it would likely be on the S only because the X is only three years old. Doing an X refresh now wouldn't allow enough depreciation on the body stamping parts. If they have found a way to increase the energy density of the 18650 cell, it could also possibly be a range increase only, in which case it would be on both the S and X.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
My money is on that.
If they can find a way to improve efficiency (motors from the M3 ?) that would extend range too. 18650 presumably gets them either same kWh and lower weight, thus more range or same weight, more kWh and even more range (and probably even more 0-60 ...). Some efficiency gains elsewhere and all the competition will be backs-against-the-wall. If I were a first-mover, and had that ace up my sleeve, I would play it just as the competition started being real ... and not before.
Just not sure if the current price drops are so that new model, original price, won't annoy recent buyers (although what of the recent buyers just before price drop/re-raise? ... I guess Tesla aren't conserned about that, "sale made, ownership 3 years, memory short")
So do I buy cheap P100DL now, before re-raise ... or wait for more range (which I would really like).
New Model will be same-old "Customer base will beta-test" and I'm done with that, so maybe "most refinement end-of-line, cheapest price" is the time to buy [Tesla]. New model wait would also give me best resale value, as I will be first-with-new-model in the 2nd hand market ... actually, now I type that, its not really a factor in my decision process ... so its "cheap now" or "longer range later, maybe"
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Jeff4155
Member
I see the rest of the world as early adopters, we here in Africa have to wait till hopefully end of the year before we will even see a Tesla on our roads, so be happy you gents have the option of pulling the trigger on what I believe is a beautiful vehicle, and should still be desirable for a few years to come.
12Pack
Member
As for all cars, I'm sure there will be rapid improvements and increased competition. But unlike many others, I've no expectation of the 2020 being leading edge as a performance car. I have lightweight cars with leading edge suspension set-ups for that.
I've put my deposit on the 2020 roadster to be my daily driver replacement for my MS. I don't need the extra space of the MS, and with 2020 roadster's straightline performance, range and AWD - I doubt there'd be something better. I am sure the 2021 will be vastly improved but that's just how it goes.
I've put my deposit on the 2020 roadster to be my daily driver replacement for my MS. I don't need the extra space of the MS, and with 2020 roadster's straightline performance, range and AWD - I doubt there'd be something better. I am sure the 2021 will be vastly improved but that's just how it goes.
CarlK
Active Member
Tesla's situation is different. There have been a lot of technology advancements in the company since the first Model S was introduced almost 7 years ago. Battery and motor are two of the biggies of course. Power and control electronics especially the modularized layout for easy assembly are no less significant. Some exterior or interior refreshing could be done but these imo are actually less important.
Brando
Active Member
Hopefully Africa can start building cheap/simple (limited top speeds for dirt roads?) pickups. and not wait for high cost/performance imports.
Brando
Active Member
and just what does that have to do with the "platform" ? Poorly defined term which lacks meaning to me. Skate board seems all we need to know. Every thing else are just components, seems to me. Anyway, let the marketing guys argue over and GM can/will use to help promote the next/new years models I'm sure.
You & I need not argue over, so I'll refrain from any more comments.
Tesla still seems to far out perform all other auto makers with the value/R&D dollars spent. <$6.5 billion 2010-2018 ?? (please verify).
Not sure if someone has already pointed this out: Tesla owners literally protest over drastic price cuts
If they can do a $100,000 price change on a P100D overnight, they can do it on a Roadster 2.
That said, I still think they can avoid making the same mistakes over and over again. Maybe? Hopefully.
If they can do a $100,000 price change on a P100D overnight, they can do it on a Roadster 2.
That said, I still think they can avoid making the same mistakes over and over again. Maybe? Hopefully.
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