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Will other brand vehicles be able to use the Supercharger?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by efusco, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Engadget posts opinion blurb critical of Tesla's 'incompatible' Supercharger.
    I usually respect Engadget, but this little piece is inflammatory, uninformed and outright hostile.

    They imply that Tesla chose to build the supercharger so that it would not be compatible with other EVs and plug-in vehicles when the fact is that other EVs and plug-ins were never built to be compatible with ANY direct DC charging.

    Tesla's Supercharger not compatible with competitor's EVs, keeps electricity within the family -- Engadget

     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Wait... you, respect Engadget? I say that a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's really nothing but a collection of bloggers that bang out stories as fast as they can without doing much background. As I said to someone the other day, I skim it for highlights, and if something interests me, I go to the comments or the source link to get the FULL story.
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    LOL! OK, "respect" might be a little much...but still, generally their articles have some interesting information and facts. This thing just plain pisses me off, and if you read the comments it's really infuriating to see the amount of ignorance about charging.
     
  4. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I hear ya. I've been skipping over Engadget articles on Tesla for a while now. Even when the story is positive, the facts are wrong and I have to resist the urge to correct them (or other ignorant commenters) in the comment section.
     
  5. pguerra

    pguerra Member

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    Evan are you a pilot? Your comment in Engadget makes me think yes. Yes/no?
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    I am a pilot, but never flown anything using Jet A.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    What about Nissan LEAF? My LEAF has a CHAdeMO port for high speed DC charging.
    Currently it seems incompatible with the Tesla Supercharger.
    i-MiEV can also have CHAdeMO DC QC port.
    Rumor has it that Tesla may provide an adapter for Model S to use CHAdeMO stations, but no such adapter for LEAFs (and i-MiEVs) to use the Superchargers.

    So, there is some truth to that article but they shouldn't have mentioned Chevy Volt in the list with i-MiEV and LEAF...
     
  8. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    A 20kWh converter? Right, that made the point. If you want to criticize, then get to know your terms and facts.
     
  9. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    +1...totally agree Trnsl8r.
     
  10. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    The supercharger doesn't even use the 20kW onboard charger, if that's what they were referring to.

    It's true that Tesla has chosen to have their own connector, but that's their perrogative.
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    At some point you can question fairness and reciprocity. Right now a Model S can pull into a Nissan dealer and charge at their J1772 EVSE, but a LEAF can't charge at any Tesla charging stations (although Tesla might internally have RAV4EV adapters that could do this, they aren't offered for general sale.)

    If Tesla provides the ability for a Model S to do a DC quick charge at a CHAdeMO station will that oblige them to provide a way for CHAdeMO cars to charge at Superchargers? J1772 (and now CHAdeMO) are "open standards". Tesla HPC/UMC and Supercharger are (currently) proprietary.
     
  12. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    My understanding is that CHAdeMO and Tesla Superchargers are quite incompatible. It would require a smart connector and some electronics as well as the mechanical adapters. The two systems use different signalling requiring a smart translator. I do agree though on reciprocal J1772 connectors.

    What may change the whole ballgame is widespread adaptation of the new SAE connector. I believe Tesla's signalling is pretty compatible with it, only requiring a mechanical adapter. At that point Tesla really should provide SAE connectors to get more companies on board so different cars could use each others' facilities.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Tesla provided an adapter for Roadster to charge from J1772 but no inverse.
    Tesla gives a J1772 adapter so that Model S can charge from J1772 stations, but no inverse.
    That is why I would suspect they might consider providing a way for Model to to charge from CHAdeMO, but not for non-Tesla cars to charge from Superchargers.

    But, based on the Supercharger plans recently revealed, perhaps they just stick only with their own branded DC charging and don't worry about cross compatibility with any other systems?

    I wonder what plans they have for Japan (which already has CHAdeMO saturation) and Europe?
    So far, we are just seeing the plans for North America...

    Given the costs and effort involved to secure & install a high speed DC charging location it is a shame if we end up with competing standards.
     
  14. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    #14 ToddRLockwood, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
    Has there been any suggestion from Tesla that they might license other EV manufacturers to use the Supercharger standard? Tesla has developed a charging standard based on its being the best solution from a technical point of view. (This is beginning to sound a lot like Apple.) If Tesla licensed other EV manufacturers to share this standard, it would only strengthen their position. Participating manufacturers could share in the cost of the Supercharger network, allowing it to become much more extensive than originally planned. Owning the patents on the standard used by everyone would have some serious side-benefits for Tesla, and it would be good for consumers, too.
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Taking a small step to have it on a partner non-Tesla branded vehicle might go a long way to establish them as well.
    For instance if we saw a Toyota or Daimler product with a Supercharging capable Tesla socket instead of J1772.

    So far, I haven't heard any indications that anyone else is considering use of Tesla's plug or Supercharging technology.
     
  16. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    Tesla could include this Supercharger compatibility on vehicles using Tesla's drive systems. In fact the brand name "Tesla Drive" makes a lot of sense. That would take care of the branding confusion at the Superchargers.
     
  17. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Obliged? No. Could they do it and charge non-Tesla's? Yes. Will they? Doubtful. I'm assuming there's a bunch of proprietary signaling between the car and supercharger that other cars won't support. Could they license their signaling tech to others to allow them to use superchargers? Yes. I also seriously doubt Tesla will allow the use of Chademo - they have said repeatedly that they don't trust anyone else to charge their battery packs and I don't see them changing their tune.
     
  18. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Well I can see Tesla putting out HPC/HPWC at these locations. No need for J1772. As your Model S needs an adapter to use J1772, they can get an adapter for the LEAF (or whatever) to use Tesla HPC/HPWC.

    Granted J1772 is a open standard and Tesla is not. But I have a feeling that Tesla may become a de facto standard. And I think Tesla should encourage that. As they can help push 70A chargers instead of 30A chargers and make sure they actually work with Teslas.
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yes, even before considering CHAdeMO <-> Supercharger, is there are place I can buy an adapter so that a J1772 vehicle (like LEAF, Volt, PiP, iMiEV, etc.) can plug into a Tesla HPC? I have seen prototypes so that new RAV4EV could plug into HPCs, but nothing offered for sale.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some people think they heard otherwise...
    Thread:Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S
    Also, related other thread:
    DC Quick Charge vs Supercharge
     
  20. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Bonnie mentioned one in her blog post (about halfway down) but I don't know where you would get one.
     

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