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Will other brand vehicles be able to use the Supercharger?

efusco

Moderator - Model S & X forums
Moderator
Engadget posts opinion blurb critical of Tesla's 'incompatible' Supercharger.
I usually respect Engadget, but this little piece is inflammatory, uninformed and outright hostile.

They imply that Tesla chose to build the supercharger so that it would not be compatible with other EVs and plug-in vehicles when the fact is that other EVs and plug-ins were never built to be compatible with ANY direct DC charging.

Tesla's Supercharger not compatible with competitor's EVs, keeps electricity within the family -- Engadget

Planning on juicing up your Chevy Volt, Mitsubishi i-MiEV or Nissan Leaf with Tesla's Supercharger? Hold your horses, vaquero. The nighttime unveiling stressed that the quick-charge solution was Model S-friendly, but we should also note that it's only compatible with the firm's automobile. Vehicles from other automakers won't be able to jack into the station thanks to a 20-kilowatt hour converter, which would zap other batteries with too much electricity, and a proprietary plug. Unless something changes, those planning cross-country trips using EVs from other manufacturers will just have to find an alternative to Musk and Co.'s white obelisk.
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Moderator
Apr 3, 2009
11,958
210
Wait... you, respect Engadget? I say that a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's really nothing but a collection of bloggers that bang out stories as fast as they can without doing much background. As I said to someone the other day, I skim it for highlights, and if something interests me, I go to the comments or the source link to get the FULL story.
 
I usually respect Engadget, but this little piece is inflammatory, uninformed and outright hostile.

They imply that Tesla chose to build the supercharger so that it would not be compatible with other EVs and plug-in vehicles when the fact is that other EVs and plug-ins were never built to be compatible with ANY direct DC charging.

Tesla's Supercharger not compatible with competitor's EVs, keeps electricity within the family -- Engadget


Evan are you a pilot? Your comment in Engadget makes me think yes. Yes/no?
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Moderator
Aug 20, 2006
22,074
9,429
...They imply that Tesla chose to build the supercharger so that it would not be compatible with other EVs and plug-in vehicles when the fact is that other EVs and plug-ins were never built to be compatible with ANY direct DC charging...

What about Nissan LEAF? My LEAF has a CHAdeMO port for high speed DC charging.
Currently it seems incompatible with the Tesla Supercharger.
i-MiEV can also have CHAdeMO DC QC port.
Rumor has it that Tesla may provide an adapter for Model S to use CHAdeMO stations, but no such adapter for LEAFs (and i-MiEVs) to use the Superchargers.

So, there is some truth to that article but they shouldn't have mentioned Chevy Volt in the list with i-MiEV and LEAF...
 
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. The Superchargers are (and should be) additional incentive for customers to buy a Tesla. I know that Elon's long term goal is to have all cars be electric, but at some points you have to separate charity goals from business decisions. We can't count on start-up car manufacturer that's in the red to dole out free charging stations for other cars. As a shareholder, I think they did the right thing here. Maybe in the future if they're in the money, the can do some EV philanthropy, but right now they need to keep up demand on their own cars and set the stage for GenIII.

+1...totally agree Trnsl8r.
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Moderator
Aug 20, 2006
22,074
9,429
...The Superchargers are (and should be) additional incentive for customers to buy a Tesla. I know that Elon's long term goal is to have all cars be electric, but at some points you have to separate charity goals from business decisions...

At some point you can question fairness and reciprocity. Right now a Model S can pull into a Nissan dealer and charge at their J1772 EVSE, but a LEAF can't charge at any Tesla charging stations (although Tesla might internally have RAV4EV adapters that could do this, they aren't offered for general sale.)

If Tesla provides the ability for a Model S to do a DC quick charge at a CHAdeMO station will that oblige them to provide a way for CHAdeMO cars to charge at Superchargers? J1772 (and now CHAdeMO) are "open standards". Tesla HPC/UMC and Supercharger are (currently) proprietary.
 
At some point you can question fairness and reciprocity. Right now a Model S can pull into a Nissan dealer and charge at their J1772 EVSE, but a LEAF can't charge at any Tesla charging stations (although Tesla might internally have RAV4EV adapters that could do this, they aren't offered for general sale.)

If Tesla provides the ability for a Model S to do a DC quick charge at a CHAdeMO station will that oblige them to provide a way for CHAdeMO cars to charge at Superchargers? J1772 (and now CHAdeMO) are "open standards". Tesla HPC/UMC and Supercharger are (currently) proprietary.
My understanding is that CHAdeMO and Tesla Superchargers are quite incompatible. It would require a smart connector and some electronics as well as the mechanical adapters. The two systems use different signalling requiring a smart translator. I do agree though on reciprocal J1772 connectors.

What may change the whole ballgame is widespread adaptation of the new SAE connector. I believe Tesla's signalling is pretty compatible with it, only requiring a mechanical adapter. At that point Tesla really should provide SAE connectors to get more companies on board so different cars could use each others' facilities.
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Moderator
Aug 20, 2006
22,074
9,429
Tesla provided an adapter for Roadster to charge from J1772 but no inverse.
Tesla gives a J1772 adapter so that Model S can charge from J1772 stations, but no inverse.
That is why I would suspect they might consider providing a way for Model to to charge from CHAdeMO, but not for non-Tesla cars to charge from Superchargers.

But, based on the Supercharger plans recently revealed, perhaps they just stick only with their own branded DC charging and don't worry about cross compatibility with any other systems?

I wonder what plans they have for Japan (which already has CHAdeMO saturation) and Europe?
So far, we are just seeing the plans for North America...

Given the costs and effort involved to secure & install a high speed DC charging location it is a shame if we end up with competing standards.
 
Has there been any suggestion from Tesla that they might license other EV manufacturers to use the Supercharger standard? Tesla has developed a charging standard based on its being the best solution from a technical point of view. (This is beginning to sound a lot like Apple.) If Tesla licensed other EV manufacturers to share this standard, it would only strengthen their position. Participating manufacturers could share in the cost of the Supercharger network, allowing it to become much more extensive than originally planned. Owning the patents on the standard used by everyone would have some serious side-benefits for Tesla, and it would be good for consumers, too.
 
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TEG

Teslafanatic
Moderator
Aug 20, 2006
22,074
9,429
Taking a small step to have it on a partner non-Tesla branded vehicle might go a long way to establish them as well.
For instance if we saw a Toyota or Daimler product with a Supercharging capable Tesla socket instead of J1772.

So far, I haven't heard any indications that anyone else is considering use of Tesla's plug or Supercharging technology.
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
4,243
2,183
NE Oklahoma
If Tesla provides the ability for a Model S to do a DC quick charge at a CHAdeMO station will that oblige them to provide a way for CHAdeMO cars to charge at Superchargers? J1772 (and now CHAdeMO) are "open standards". Tesla HPC/UMC and Supercharger are (currently) proprietary.
Obliged? No. Could they do it and charge non-Tesla's? Yes. Will they? Doubtful. I'm assuming there's a bunch of proprietary signaling between the car and supercharger that other cars won't support. Could they license their signaling tech to others to allow them to use superchargers? Yes. I also seriously doubt Tesla will allow the use of Chademo - they have said repeatedly that they don't trust anyone else to charge their battery packs and I don't see them changing their tune.
 

ElSupreme

Model S 03182
Moderator
Jan 13, 2012
4,303
105
Atlanta, GA
At some point you can question fairness and reciprocity. Right now a Model S can pull into a Nissan dealer and charge at their J1772 EVSE, but a LEAF can't charge at any Tesla charging stations (although Tesla might internally have RAV4EV adapters that could do this, they aren't offered for general sale.)

If Tesla provides the ability for a Model S to do a DC quick charge at a CHAdeMO station will that oblige them to provide a way for CHAdeMO cars to charge at Superchargers? J1772 (and now CHAdeMO) are "open standards". Tesla HPC/UMC and Supercharger are (currently) proprietary.

Well I can see Tesla putting out HPC/HPWC at these locations. No need for J1772. As your Model S needs an adapter to use J1772, they can get an adapter for the LEAF (or whatever) to use Tesla HPC/HPWC.

Granted J1772 is a open standard and Tesla is not. But I have a feeling that Tesla may become a de facto standard. And I think Tesla should encourage that. As they can help push 70A chargers instead of 30A chargers and make sure they actually work with Teslas.
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Moderator
Aug 20, 2006
22,074
9,429
...they can get an adapter for the LEAF (or whatever) to use Tesla HPC/HPWC...

Yes, even before considering CHAdeMO <-> Supercharger, is there are place I can buy an adapter so that a J1772 vehicle (like LEAF, Volt, PiP, iMiEV, etc.) can plug into a Tesla HPC? I have seen prototypes so that new RAV4EV could plug into HPCs, but nothing offered for sale.

- - - Updated - - -

... I also seriously doubt Tesla will allow the use of Chademo - they have said repeatedly that they don't trust anyone else to charge their battery packs and I don't see them changing their tune.

Some people think they heard otherwise...
Thread:Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S
100thMonkey said:
...Before going through with making our reservation and in part as a condition of it, I was referred to two Tesla product specialist managers in WA that were at a CA Tesla training the week before. Both of them assured me with certainty that a CHAdeMO adapter had been engineered and was now in the refinement stage, with efforts to make it more "ergonomic"...

Also, related other thread:
DC Quick Charge vs Supercharge
Rifleman said:
Unless someone offers a Tesla to J1772 adapter, they will not be using the level 2 chargers, and the Superchargers will be of no use to them at all. I have no problem letting leafs charge at Tesla charging stations, as long as Nissan dealers let Model S's charge at their chargers. All of us EV'ers are in this together, and there are not enough chargers out there to not share.
 

ElSupreme

Model S 03182
Moderator
Jan 13, 2012
4,303
105
Atlanta, GA
Yes, even before considering CHAdeMO <-> Supercharger, is there are place I can buy an adapter so that a J1772 vehicle (like LEAF, Volt, PiP, iMiEV, etc.) can plug into a Tesla HPC? I have seen prototypes so that new RAV4EV could plug into HPCs, but nothing offered for sale.

Bonnie mentioned one in her blog post (about halfway down) but I don't know where you would get one.
 

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