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IANAL but what I was getting at was that the class action lawsuit settlement essentially absolves Tesla of any further legal obligation with respect to FSD delivery or non-delivery at least for those who didn't explicitly opt out or whatever.Still consistent with that I say - "otherwise compensate" just means giving customers up to $230 each. They can't keep selling it because it would open then to new liabilities. The truth is, AP2 cars will never fully self drive as Tesla described it, so maybe the lawyers finally forced Elon to stop selling it.
People who sued in Europe got ~$5K each for the hp deception, but no class action lawsuit. It also forced Tesla to reveal actual hp number - 463hp (a lot less than the advertised 691hp).Good examples. I'm not completely versed in the HP debacle but I do believe there should be some sort of compensation for under-rated performance models. Though it would probably require the courts to do something. Just like the AP2.0 "late to the party" lawsuit. Everyone get ~$80-230 and sign away your rights to sue in the future.
Exactly. I think the up to $280 compensation is it - nothing more coming. Of course selling something for $3K now knowing they can't deliver it and counting on paying back $280 later would be considered fraud, hence they had to stop selling it.IANAL but what I was getting at was that the class action lawsuit settlement essentially absolves Tesla of any further legal obligation with respect to FSD delivery or non-delivery at least for those who didn't explicitly opt out or whatever.
quite a few people bought the FSD knowing the $4K upgrade price could change at any time. So they wanted to lock in FSD at a bargain price. FSD is worth magnitudes more than $3K, or $4K.
I mean, when has Tesla ever fully delivered on an Autopilot promise?
The guy accomplished a lot in his life, I fully respect that, but at some point (about 4 years ago) he got high on his own success and is currently burning out and going crazy, like the original Nicola Tesla who lied to his investors just so he can fund his death ray project.
IANAL but what I was getting at was that the class action lawsuit settlement essentially absolves Tesla of any further legal obligation with respect to FSD delivery or non-delivery at least for those who didn't explicitly opt out or whatever.
The class action was merely about EAP. Nothing about FSD.
Further, the scope of the claims was far more narrow than "any further legal obligation." It does wipe the slate clean for Tesla in the US for EAP delayed delivery but that's about it. Failure to deliver any features isn't contemplated in the last version of the settlement agreement that I read.
The recently closed settlement TECHNICALLY gives Tesla a pass on delivering any more EAP features. The reason being is they can always claim they're working on it. They will release a nibble here and there to appease the courts but it will never have 100% of the advertised features. They'll just sit back and hope people forget, trade-in and crash their cars. AP1 is living proof.
That's why they made every AP2.0 owner a class member without asking them.
Do you really, trully believe Elon actually believed AP2 cars were fully FSD capable, to let you sleep in the back while it drives you to work or summon it from across the country? If he did, then he's either completely delusional or just a really bad engineer who didn't think about things like how to keep the cameras clean while driving. I don't think many will agree he's a bad engineer, so that leaves intentional deception or Nicola-Tesla-like gone off the deep end delusional. I'm leaning towards the latter.I don't think Elon has the mens rea for fraud. I think he means well, and has good intentions, ...
Do you really, trully believe Elon actually believed AP2 cars were fully FSD capable, to let you sleep in the back while it drives you to work or summon it from across the country? If he did, then he's either completely delusional or just a really bad engineer who didn't think about things like how to keep the cameras clean while driving. I don't think many will agree he's a bad engineer, so that leaves intentional deception or Nicola-Tesla-like gone off the deep end delusional. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Yes I do believe he was sincere in his belief.
Vision is great, but you need to temper it with sober assessments of reality.
OK, so then you prefer the "gone off the deep end" option?
Yes I do believe he was sincere in his belief. I have no reason to say otherwise and I have my reasons for my belief: I don't see him needing to defraud anyone. Sure he loves money like the rest of us, but he risked his Paypal fortune because he's about a lot more than money. I also think his "living on mars" (what do most engineers say about that?) is about the same in his head as FSD -- both pie in the sky (for the foreseeable future) but not to him. He's so far ahead of the rest of us when it comes to being a visionary -- he's just not held down firmly to the realities of earth -- which is a good thing -- and why I'm driving on rainwater rather than fossil fuels But at the same time, when he was living at the factory and having more things done by hand than his vision about robots building cars lead him to believe, then having problems with automation and realizing how well people can do things, then saying robots are overrated -- I though that was another example of his head further ahead of our current technology.
Again, no mens rea, at least in my view. I'm completely convinced of it but there's no way I can convince you, and you could be right, but we'll never know since neither of us can get in his head, and I do understand and have sympathy for people who feel cheated -- and I think it will only get worse as FSD takes longer and longer.
...employees to test FSD features in 2019...
...new FSD chip scheduled for release in 2019...
Do you really, trully believe Elon actually believed AP2 cars were fully FSD capable, to let you sleep in the back while it drives you to work or summon it from across the country? If he did, then he's either completely delusional or just a really bad engineer who didn't think about things like how to keep the cameras clean while driving. I don't think many will agree he's a bad engineer, so that leaves intentional deception or Nicola-Tesla-like gone off the deep end delusional. I'm leaning towards the latter.
The problem with FSD isn't the sensors, computers, or any other hardware. It's the software. If Tesla could demonstrate FSD in a car equipped with $1.5M of hardware, I'd be convinced.
They can't.
There are two problems.The problem with FSD isn't the sensors, computers, or any other hardware. It's the software. If Tesla could demonstrate FSD in a car equipped with $1.5M of hardware, I'd be convinced.
They can't.