Will regular autopilot 1.0 driving keep pace with 2.5?

[tel]

If AP1 stayed as it is, I'd be happy. On the other hand, what about the promised off-ramp capabilities for versions 8.0 and 8.1? I still don't see a technical reason why AP1 can't be updated to take freeway off-ramps based on turn signals or routing.

 

[chillaban]

If AP1 stayed as it is, I'd be happy. On the other hand, what about the promised off-ramp capabilities for versions 8.0 and 8.1? I still don't see a technical reason why AP1 can't be updated to take freeway off-ramps based on turn signals or routing.

It looks like the camera can’t see to the sides very well for navigating curves.

Even with 2 cameras, AP2 is showing cars to the side a lot sooner than AP1 does.

 

[bluetinc]

I don't have a link ready at hand, but WK057 has stated that the AP1 system has not been updated in a year now, and as such, I wouldn't expect it to be updated ever again. If you are happy with what it does (which is a lot) fantastic, but don't fool yourself that it's going to change over time.

Just to split hairs ahead of time, changing the time interval on the steering wheel or the updating of more detailed map tiles from Tesla doesn't mean they are updating the actual AP1 system functionality. There were many other functions which AP1 hardware is quite capable and were loosely promised early on (off ramp and splits on turn signals and nav, detecting stop signs, red lights, turn signals) as referenced by what Mobileye did with there hardware, which never were implemented on AP1. That's what happens when a pair of companies have a falling out.

Peter

Tesla will continue to update AP1 where they can, but eAP with HW2 and 2.5 will gain features AP! cars will never get, like the ability to change lanes without you telling it to (AP1 can't see to the rear beyond the ultrasonics, newer cars can easily.)

 

[Saghost]

I don't have a link ready at hand, but WK057 has stated that the AP1 system has not been updated in a year now, and as such, I wouldn't expect it to be updated ever again. If you are happy with what it does (which is a lot) fantastic, but don't fool yourself that it's going to change over time.

Just to split hairs ahead of time, changing the time interval on the steering wheel or the updating of more detailed map tiles from Tesla doesn't mean they are updating the actual AP1 system functionality. There were many other functions which AP1 hardware is quite capable and were loosely promised early on (off ramp and splits on turn signals and nav, detecting stop signs, red lights, turn signals) as referenced by what Mobileye did with there hardware, which never were implemented on AP1. That's what happens when a pair of companies have a falling out.

Peter

As a driver of an AP1 car who uses AP on a routine basis, I can tell you that's wrong. My AP1 car does a much better job of driving today than it did a year ago, especially in some of the corner cases like bad weather and poor lane markings.

 

[bluetinc]

Well that was quick to be so decisively told I'm wrong.

None of this is to say that AP1 is not great, it is. But don't fool some poor guy who is thinking about buying a new (used) car with AP1 that the system is going to kept getting improved with new functionality like 2.0+ will be.

I was careful to include the hair splitting section, so would you mind breaking it down for me, as I did for you? Has the embedded system inside of the AP1 hardware been updated? Have any new "once promised" functions been added?

I'm am extremely well antiquated with AP1 since it was first turned on. I was very specific on what has changed over the last year. The updated map tiles account for the changes that you have seen, that being better handling of cases where it has to rely on map data.


Peter

As a driver of an AP1 car who uses AP on a routine basis, I can tell you that's wrong. My AP1 car does a much better job of driving today than it did a year ago, especially in some of the corner cases like bad weather and poor lane markings.

 

[Saghost]

Well that was quick to be so decisively told I'm wrong.

None of this is to say that AP1 is not great, it is. But don't fool some poor guy who is thinking about buying a new (used) car with AP1 that the system is going to kept getting improved with new functionality like 2.0+ will be.

I was careful to include the hair splitting section, so would you mind breaking it down for me, as I did for you? Has the embedded system inside of the AP1 hardware been updated? Have any new "once promised" functions been added?

I'm am extremely well antiquated with AP1 since it was first turned on. I was very specific on what has changed over the last year. The updated map tiles account for the changes that you have seen, that being better handling of cases where it has to rely on map data.


Peter

I've never seen any evidence presented that maps are tied to AP (though they will have to be for the exit ramp functionality that's promised, but that's still a "hug this line instead of that one," rather than "steer along this GPS trace.") Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

I don't have enough information to break down just what Tesla has done, so I look at it holistically - as an end user, the car has become more capable than it was before, and I believe that will continue to happen. I believe Tesla will give AP1 cars every AP feature that the car's hardware will support in parallel with AP2+ cars. (As noted repeatedly above, there are eAP features promised that AP1 hardware certainly won't support.)

Given what they've been improving, I feel it's likely that they've made changes to the NN or at least the programming converting NN outputs into steering commands, but as I said, I have no way of knowing what they are doing under the hood...

 

[David_Cary]

3.3 years on AP1 (well I have had a AP car that long - we usually call AP1's birthday some time in Oct 15).

I have noticed no improvement in the last year. I have 60k miles on my car.

I had my first unwanted braking event about 1 month ago - so arguably it has gotten worse. But it could be random too.

Just my opinion.

 

[NHK X]

You’re answering a different question than what the OP asked. Yes cars with AP1 will get firmware updates. No it will not improve the autopilot.

Haha yes, but he was answering the intent of the question.

 

[NHK X]

Also interesting to consider machine learning, AP1 has maxed out number of cars on road while AP2/2.5 is growing at a rapid pace. It’s just a matter of time when things promised with EAP come.

 

[robby]

Well that was quick to be so decisively told I'm wrong.

None of this is to say that AP1 is not great, it is. But don't fool some poor guy who is thinking about buying a new (used) car with AP1 that the system is going to kept getting improved with new functionality like 2.0+ will be.

I was careful to include the hair splitting section, so would you mind breaking it down for me, as I did for you? Has the embedded system inside of the AP1 hardware been updated? Have any new "once promised" functions been added?

I'm am extremely well antiquated with AP1 since it was first turned on. I was very specific on what has changed over the last year. The updated map tiles account for the changes that you have seen, that being better handling of cases where it has to rely on map data.


Peter

I've also heard the rumors that the AP1 binaries haven't changed since October '16. I'm not sure what to make of them, but I will say to @Saghost's point there has to be more to the story. 18 months ago, AP1 was beyond worthless in the rain. It would constantly lose lane markings and bounce from side to side, sometimes within the lane but often much beyond it. Today, it takes a flash flood for AP1's performance to suffer on a well-marked road, and even then it is generally still quite usable. I'm not sure how to square this with the rumors -- it sure seems like an improvement to the AP1 neural network.

 

[smk23us]

I have no idea if AP1 firmware has changed, but i certanly see constant changes in AP1 road behavior after most of car updates.
Some for better (AP1 is usable with just one lane marker and sometimes without it, which was not possible), some for worst (phantom breaking, worst performance on curves it had no problem with 2 updates ago).

We dont know, does MobileEye updates firmware, or is tesla software doing more with output they recive from MobilEye hardware (more probable).
I can see that it changes constantly.

I drove 23k km in my MS and 90% of which on AP1, so i see those changes as they apear.

Will Tesla add new functionalities to AP1? I doubt that. But hope it can improve it's performance and not break it in the process.

 

[Saghost]

Will Tesla add new functionalities to AP1? I doubt that. But hope it can improve it's performance and not break it in the process.

I think we might see a few things, like using the Nav to decide which side to hug if you're in a lane that splits on the freeway, either onto another road or as an exit lane.

But I'd agree that AP1 probably has most of the user facing features that it's ever going to get.