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Will staggered wheels and stickier tires up 0-60?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by steilkurve, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. steilkurve

    steilkurve Member

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    Eagerly awaiting my P3D+. Considering putting the TST 20"s in a staggered set up with Pirelli Zero Max Performance tires on them. I know staggered will give me better handling but will they also improve 0-60 time? Wondering if it's worth going staggered vs. square for launch. All thoughts welcome!
     
  2. TexasTeslaRacing

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    I have not tried wider or sticker tires with the P3D+ yet, however, with the model S & X wider and sticker tires did not make much of a difference. What does help is a well prepped surface like a drag strip to get the best 0-60 times. Also, there is no performance gain by charging over 93%. My best acceleration times have been between 89% - 93%. Go out and have fun!
     
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  3. gilscales

    gilscales Member

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  4. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Also staggered is worse for handling as it introduces understeer

    Staggered can be useful if there's a significant weight balance issue- but the Tesla is ~50/50.... staggered can be useful if all/most of the power comes from one axle- also not the case with AWD/P model 3s.

    So unless it's purely for looks square is the way to go.
     
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  5. steilkurve

    steilkurve Member

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    Very helpful. Thanks.
     
  6. navinsiri

    navinsiri Member

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    I think Tesla is currently launching the P3D at the tire limits so adding sticker tires won’t help. Maybe in the future when track mode/ludicrous(?) come out sticker tires will help
     
  7. rhaekar

    rhaekar Member

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    Normally having more traction would always benefit but there's a suspicion that Tesla is software limiting the power output of the Model 3 so providing more traction might just cause the software to dial back the power anyway. We really don't know until people start testing it out.

    Usually people go staggered to get the widest possible wheel in the rear without having a wheel in the front that pokes out beyond the fender or rubs. Also, going staggered doesn't necessarily improve handling, depends on the car. In the tire and wheel thread, one of the big wheel vendors was saying that the staggered setup actually increases the understeer on the 3.
     
  8. Jedi2155

    Jedi2155 Model 3 has Arrived.

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    The P3D- could use better tires. The P3D+ is just about at the peak optimization given what we know currently. That;s my impression at least.
     
  9. steilkurve

    steilkurve Member

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    Even lighter wheels wouldn’t make a difference? Like Unplugged Performance forged wheels that are about 10 pounds lighter per wheel over the OEM?
     
  10. Adam3

    Adam3 Member

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    I thought FlyNavy reported with his lighter wheels and wider tires the 0-60 isn't improved.
     
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  11. Rick M

    Rick M Member

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    The Dual Motor cars have more understeer than the RWD, which already has designed in understeer. If you add wider rear tires, you're now exacerbating that understeer (push) even further.

    The best setup is to put the widest possible tire/wheel up front, then match to rear. I've heard 265's fit in front but then others say they rub upon full lock. Staggered setups look great on the Model 3 but they aren't what you want for a neutral handling car. Go staggered for cosmetic reasons.
     
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  12. TexasTeslaRacing

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    I saw this beautiful white on white P3D+ today at SpeedShield and noticed the tire treadwear rating was 300 instead of the 500 I originally thought. Michelin Sport 4S.

    The other thing I noticed is the rear brake caliper is huge! At least 70% larger over non performance brakes. The rear and front discs are floating, which means the disc slightly moves for better disc centering.
     

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  13. steilkurve

    steilkurve Member

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    Exactly the car I’ve got on order... if only they had a dark wheel option.
     
  14. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    What is the + signify in P3D+ vs P3D?
     
  15. navinsiri

    navinsiri Member

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    The Performance Upgrades package with the larger brakes, wheels, spoiler, etc
     
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  16. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Wow.. thanks. I never selected the Performance option in the design studio to see that pop up. Nice. I'm also not reading every thread in the M3 forum. :rolleyes:
     
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  17. khraiv

    khraiv Member

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    Currently data shows no straight line delta with staggered, grip just isn't the limit due to the linear performance. However there is untapped power, so if that is ever unlocked in the future we could see potential for it. I wouldn't bother right now, the square 4S setup is soo good. I'd be happy to invest a bit more down the line if possible to hit 3 flat, but it's already so good I'm not worried about it. I believe the biggest opportunity is actually in 50+ acceleration, that's where it's not as special as it could be. Linear force in the 0.7 to 1.0g force starts dropping to 0.5g around 50mph.
     
  18. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Exactly. I've been saying this for years. I haven't done the math for M3P, but for a Model S with 265/245 staggered wheels/tires, the rear staggered tires only add 4% more contact patch area. Marginal, at best.

    Unless you're on a track, with a car built for track purposes (say, @sorka's P85D+ with monster sway bars :) ), and pushing the car to the absolute limits of adhesion (in the turns), staggered width setups* provide essentially no performance or handling differences in normal street or highway driving.

    The drawbacks (can't rotate the tires, limited selection of staggered sizes in performance tires) far outweigh any benefits (none, really). They're really for bragging rights more than anything else.

    I'd also argue (my opinion here) that even cosmetically they don't make any visual differences. On the Model S, the difference is .75" in width of the rear tires. That's the width of your thumb. Are you really going to tell a difference far enough away from the car to see that? Yes, the tire profile is also a tiny bit smaller on the 265s from the 245s (about 8%) , but is that even noticeable?

    *Some performance cars have staggered diameter and width wheels/tires (usually smaller front wheels). That kind of staggered setup can have a non-marginal impact on street handling/performance.
     
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  19. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    Cutting down on weight would help more IMO. Lighter forged wheels with sticky tires in a square setup.
     
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  20. TexasTeslaRacing

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    Tesla needs to use their SpaceX tech and build a two speed transmission. Hard to do with all the torque. It would be a legit roll racing car above 60mph.
     

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