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Will Supercharger v3 mean new battery for S and X

Discussion in 'Model S' started by zambono, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. zambono

    zambono Active Member

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    Latest I heard Supercharger v3 should be out by the end of this year, will it be introduced with new batteries that will be able to use the higher output?
     
  2. Gen3

    Gen3 Member

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    I guess yes. Though who knows if it is I’ll be just chemistry and when they’ll make the change
     
  3. ChrML

    ChrML Member

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    I think they were talking about 200 kW as being the maximum feasible with their current chemistry. Competitors have been taking about 350 kW, but Tesla has said that charging a 100 kWh battery that fast means you need to do a really bad compromise on energy/weight ratio.

    But I certainly think there will be a hardware change for SuC v3. Most likely better cooling, stronger wiring and maybe minor adjustments to chemistry.

    Today's cars will definitely get help from the new generation too. 2 old cars could share a pair and still get >100 kW each, instead of 40-70 kW as today on busy locations.

    But v3 is also about the charger itself:

    1. It would be really strange if v3 is not automatically plugging in the car (due to FSD coming).

    2. Better integration with solar panels, battery banks etc.

    3. Maybe a different load distribution mechanism independent of charger pairs.
     
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  4. ChrML

    ChrML Member

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    For what we know Tesla may even already have made the change with the latest iteration of the 100 pack.
     
  5. Tiger

    Tiger Active Member

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    • Disagree x 1
  6. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Yeah that totally makes sense for Tesla to change out the plugs for the tens of thousands of superchargers they have across the planet and render every Tesla they've made to date obsolete and unable to use the supercharging network.

    Tesla joined the group responsible for creating CCS, doesn't mean they're adopting CCS for their own cars. Just means they have a voice in the future of the development of CCS. In no way are they obliged to design their cars one way or another.
     
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  7. E-Ryc

    E-Ryc Member

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    @tpham07 It will probably matter for Europe - European SC plug is CCS compatible (in the meaning CCS equipped Teslas can use existing SC plugs). So no change of whole SC network needed and CCS on car will allow the cars to use non-Tesla chargers without adapter (CCS adapter doesn't exist anyway).
     
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  8. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    That could be a possibility. What I find more likely is a gas-cap style charging port option like in china where they have the Tesla proprietary plug and whatever new charging plug they decide (CCS or not)
     
  9. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    The current X and S already use only a small fraction of the overall capacity of the current superchargers. Battery improvements are incremental. I think there were >4 new versions in 2 years before I stopped counting... it's unlikely to be anything that's 'announced' or 'noticed'... I would expect a v3 supercharger to be leaner, cheaper, and do a better job balancing load between bays so you don't have to crawl along at 20kW if your neighbor is still charging at 110kW.
     
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  10. migselv

    migselv Member

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    This is not true. The EU Tesla Super Charger plug is a modification of the Type 2 charging plug which is only used for AC charging (except Tesla).
    The CCS plug is comprised of a Type 2 + 2 extra wires for the DC current.
    A Type 2 socket alone would not make the vehicle CCS compatible.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I've read many times in the forums that CCS prohibits adapters but have never seen an official statement from CharIN. I have seen a recommendation that each region have a single version, e.g. all of N America, but no actual prohibition.

    Can anyone come up with a link to such an official prohibition?
     
  12. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    They will likely have receptacles for both the CCS and Tesla plugs. The M3 door is large enough to accommodate two ports. I expect that next model S update will do the same, and will include for 2 ports as an option.

    In China the S already has two ports - although the second port is clearly a hack job.
     
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    • Like x 1
  13. E-Ryc

    E-Ryc Member

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    Ok, I should have said: I Tesla uses CCS with Tesla proprietary extension of Type2 part... But I can't come to a single idea why they would do it otherwise (break compatibility with existing SC).
     
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  14. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Weee!

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    Keep in mind that, currently, the Gen2 Superchargers (135kW) output more than what our cars can accept.

    I agree with the other posts above; the Gen3 will bring with it better efficiency and more future proofing. And of course, more power for load sharing between stalls.
     
  15. ricebucket

    ricebucket Member

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    You guys are all not seeing another (yet very likely) possibility: bigger battery packs.

    Even with no changes to current chemistry, a battery twice as large (200kWh) would enable twice the charge rate (>250kW). Of course, there will probably be chemistry changes necessary to somehow fit that many batteries in the car.

    But I believe that Tesla does see this in the near future. The Roadster 2, which has to be smaller in footprint than the S and still has enough room for 3 motors, can fit 200kWh. This means that somehow either through better engineering or better chemistry, Tesla does think this is possible.
     
  16. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    With the Supercharger network, S/X 100D's have more than enough range for almost all customers. The issue is charging times - staying for 30-45 minutes at a supercharger (or longer, if there is contention) is too long.

    Reducing charging times will likely require a different battery design, to distribute more power to the battery pack and handle the increased charging heat.

    While I'm hoping Tesla will surprise us when the V3 announcement is made, and support faster charging for our 2017 S 100D and new X 100D, it seems much more likely we'll see some small improvements (such as full charging when both A/B stalls are being used) and that a new battery pack/charging system will be needed to see significant improvements in charging times.
     
  17. zambono

    zambono Active Member

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    The expansions of the charging network has been wonderful, but like you said we should be hitting 80% within 20 minutes so that it doesn't become a drag.
     

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