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Will Supercharging shorten the battery life?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by taoh2, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. taoh2

    taoh2 Member

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    will super charge shorten the battery life?

    I asked this question to several Tesla Employees, some have no idea, some say yes, other say no

    anyone know?

    thanks in advance
     
  2. WMAC

    WMAC Member

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    If you use it every time, all the time, yes, compared to not using it at all. Using it occasionally mixed with slow charge will have an inconsequential impact.
     
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    At best SCs charge at a rate of 1.4C when the battery state of charge (SOC) is low. It rapidly reduces from there. The best information available indicates that severe degradation happens above 4C (This is battery temperature dependent). The Battery University says:

    "Today, the Tesla Model-S uses Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide (NCA), a chemistry that has high specific energy, high specific power and a long cycle count, but it costs a bit more. To reduce stress, Tesla is “super-sizing” the pack. The batteries of the Model S-60 and S-85 are so large that they operate at a C-rate of only 0.25C (C/4), even at highway speed. This allows Tesla to focus on high energy density for maximum runtime and longevity; power density is less important. The negative is increased energy consumption due to a heavier vehicle and a higher battery price."
     
  4. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    What makes you say this when there is not a single documented case of Supercharging shortening battery life?
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Well, I don't doubt that if you compared a car that only charged at 16 amps to one that used Superchargers for every charge there would be a measurable difference. However, measurable and significant are two different animals. And even if you never drove the car and left it at 50%, there would still be degradation due to aging. Bottom line is: Don't worry about it and have fun driving it.
     
  6. Caligula

    Caligula Member

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    I directly asked tech at my SoC and he told me using the SC "as the primary source for charging" is not recommended by Tesla as its not good for the battery.

    That's basically verbatim.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The tech said that, I'm sure, but the problem is that Tesla has sent mixed messages, and have put Superchargers in areas where charging at home is not possible. So, it can't be that bad. I suspect that if you had received an answer from a different tech or a different Service Centre the response would likely not be the same.
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    super charge shorten the battery life

    And the OP supports your position with:
    However, I do not understand your statement that:
    Can you give example?
     
  9. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Higher charge and discharge rate are more stressful for the battery and will shorten life. They question is: by how much. There Has been a long term study with Nissan Leafs. One only charged normal, one only charged on CHADeMO. Now the Leaf has no thermal management and since the Leaf battery is so small that the charge rate relative to the battery size is actually higher than a Supercharger. All these things cause more stress on the battery. Yes the difference in capacity loss between the testes cars was very small compared to the overall capacity loss. So the most extreme case (charging fast all the time) and much worse conditions compared to the Tesla didn't have a big negative impact on the battery.

    The Tesla on the other hand has excellent thermal management. It is much more careful with fast charging. S it is a given that the difference would be much less. In other words, do not worry about Supercharging your Tesla. Even doing it a lot won't make a significant difference.

    So the answer is, yes Supercharging is worse for the battery than normal charging. But the difference is so small that it should not be a concern.

    Here is the study
     
  10. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    This is TMC, I thought you're allowed to push opinions as "facts"? :confused:
     
  11. rjcbox

    rjcbox Member

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    From all that I read, the difference is not significant
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The mixed messages are the conflicting statements from the various Tesla personnel, as in the OP's post. After all, they do represent Tesla.
     
  13. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Supercharging frequently at your local supercharger will definitely shorten battery life. Supercharging frequently out of town will have no appreciable effect.
     
  14. digitaltim

    digitaltim Sig737 VIN628

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    I supercharged twice weekly for 2+ years. I range charge M-F to 252 miles which is a ~4.9% loss of range if you want to believe the numbers. 103k miles on the odometer.

    I would not worry about it.
     
  15. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    Sorry, I hate to add nonsense to what may have been intended as a clever tongue-and-cheek reply, but OTOH if this was intended as something helpful, I must say: "WHAT? How does the Supercharger location have anything to do with it?"
     
  16. aus

    aus Member

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    I guess the other question is, how "full" does one charge when using an SC. I would imagine charging to 80% wouldn't be that bad, but going to 90+% might cause some (slight) damage.

    .
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Tesla has a very good algorithm that can detect when you're supercharging close to home, with 99.999999% accuracy, and they intentionally send a signal to the car to tell it to shorten the battery life. Or aliens. I always get confused between the two...
     
  18. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Of course my reply was tongue-in-cheek, and I'm glad you thought it clever. Wouldn't it be great though if we could actually convince some owners that it was true? It would end overcrowding at several California superchargers for sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is no reason to imagine that. That is what the taper is for.
     
  19. WMAC

    WMAC Member

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    yes, this is what was meant from my comment.
     
  20. shelbri

    shelbri Member

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    I asked my service center the same question and was told that any impact would be insignificant. I was then told that supercharging will likely have more of an impact on the battery cooling pumps which are working hard if you are charging from a low SoC allowing SC to work at full power. You can hear the pumps roaring.

    Does anyone know if these are covered under the battery warranty or not? I suspect not.
     

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