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  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #21 is available now. We covered the recent wide release of FSD Beta and shared our experiences. We also discussed the best times to charge and Tesla's official CCS adapter. You can watch it on YouTube.

Will Tesla be able to deliver FSD with HW3.0 and current Model 3 sensor suite, ever?

Good news. There is an actual product available, right now. ;)

This has been the case for over a year with FSD.

The first feature Tesla delivered for FSD (and not for Autopilot, including retired enhanced Austopilot, excluding "visualization preview" which I do not classify as a functional feature) was "stop signs" support released just recently. Before that, nothing was released to FSD, which was not also released to non-FSD buyers.
 

Knightshade

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Jul 31, 2017
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The first feature Tesla delivered for FSD (and not for Autopilot, including retired enhanced Austopilot, excluding "visualization preview" which I do not classify as a functional feature) was "stop signs" support released just recently. Before that, nothing was released to FSD, which was not also released to non-FSD buyers.


For anyone who purchased FSD anytime in the last 14 months, that's not correct.

From March 2019 onward, FSD has been a package offering 7 specific features. ALL of which were ONLY available to FSD buyers (again, from that date onward- people who bought things before 3/19 had different options)- and 5 of the 7 already existed and were immediately available to those FSD buyers.

Now a 6th has been released (in the US- coming elsewhere later)- leaving only 1 of the original 7 promised features not yet released for anybody who bough FSD in the last ~14 months.


Now folks who bought PRIOR to 3/19? They're still owed... a lot :)


But FSD pre 3/19 and post 3/19 really are different products... (just as EAP available pre-3/19, and basic AP available 3/19 to present, are very different)
 
The first feature Tesla delivered for FSD (and not for Autopilot, including retired enhanced Austopilot, excluding "visualization preview" which I do not classify as a functional feature) was "stop signs" support released just recently. Before that, nothing was released to FSD, which was not also released to non-FSD buyers.
Incorrect. For example Navigate on Autopilot has been around for quite some time. Early Spring of last year? I forget the date but I bought FSD middle of March as an upgrade from EAP and know it was there already because, on principle, I had refused to purchase FSD until there was something, there.

P.S. And even your post above acknowledges that there is actual product being shipped now. ;)
 
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For anyone who purchased FSD anytime in the last 14 months, that's not correct.

From March 2019 onward, FSD has been a package offering 7 specific features. ALL of which were ONLY available to FSD buyers (again, from that date onward- people who bought things before 3/19 had different options)- and 5 of the 7 already existed and were immediately available to those FSD buyers.

Now a 6th has been released (in the US- coming elsewhere later)- leaving only 1 of the original 7 promised features not yet released for anybody who bough FSD in the last ~14 months.


Now folks who bought PRIOR to 3/19? They're still owed... a lot :)


But FSD pre 3/19 and post 3/19 really are different products... (just as EAP available pre-3/19, and basic AP available 3/19 to present, are very different)

Great job splitting hairs )
 
Incorrect. For example Navigate on Autopilot has been around for quite some time. Early Spring of last year? I forget the date but I bought FSD middle of March as an upgrade from EAP and know it was there already because, on principle, I had refused to purchase FSD until there was something, there.

P.S. And even your post above acknowledges that there is actual product being shipped now. ;)

NoA was available for EAP buyers for a long time. But again, this is splitting hairs. I’m not saying nothing was released. Something was. It is just so far behind at least my past expectations.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
16,202
31,701
NC
NoA was available for EAP buyers for a long time. But again, this is splitting hairs.

Yeah- it's not though- because since March 2019 there are no new EAP buyers.

You keep conflating two explicitly different products one of which hasn't even been available to buy for over a year now.




I’m not saying nothing was released.

I mean- you literally said that.


This will actually increase innovation, by forcing Tesla to only get money when an actual product is available.


Pointing out you're factually wrong isn't "splitting hairs" either.

An actual product IS available.

In fact the one that is available to buy right now has delivered 6 out of the 7 features it promises to deliver.

(or 5/7 so far if you're outside the US)
 
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Yeah- it's not though- because since March 2019 there are no new EAP buyers.

You keep conflating two explicitly different products one of which hasn't even been available to buy for over a year now.






I mean- you literally said that.







Pointing out you're factually wrong isn't "splitting hairs" either.
[/QUOTE]

You created your own FSD versions in your own head. Good for you. Tesla never admitted they are selling different FSD products. I’m sure they see it that way.

They will probably give something to EAP buyers, and probably liable to earlier FSD buyers to a greater extent. But this is it.
 
NoA was available for EAP buyers for a long time. But again, this is splitting hairs. I’m not saying nothing was released. Something was. It is just so far behind at least my past expectations.
EAP had to manually initiate lane changes that were suggested.

EDIT: And as to "why" for me, the core of it was I saw the stoplight/stop sign feature as the price I paid of the century if they came through on it. Which given the advancements they'd made over my already several months of ownership I judged as low risk that they'd fail to ship that.
 
The very fact that Tesla couldn't even solve phantom braking for so many years shows that its FSD team are either seriously incompetent or has bumped into some unforeseen technical hurdles that are impossible to be solved with the current sensors/techs on the car.

They just can’t say “no” to Elon Musk. This is why they can’t solve things how they want. They are within constraints of using camera-only approach. Which will work long-term, but delays immediate product availability. I’m sure engineers are great. Likely the best.
 
Here is the original announcement from October 2018:
Introducing Navigate on Autopilot

Here is NoA update from April 2019: Introducing a More Seamless Navigate on Autopilot

Both are available for EAP buyers in exactly the same way as for FSD buyers.
I thought there was some weird little thing that I didn't much care about? Huh. I guess bent my principles a bit to get my deal of the century?

So graduations are in order for you, I had a history detail wrong, and you have successfully split a hair.....and continuing to be dead wrong. FSD shipping features, right now, even for those grandfathered in with EAP.

Right?
 
I thought there was some weird little thing that I didn't much care about? Huh. I guess bent my principles a bit to get my deal of the century?

So graduations are in order for you, I had a history detail wrong, and you have successfully split a hair.....and continuing to be dead wrong. FSD shipping features, right now, even for those grandfathered in with EAP.

Right?

Yes, they are shipping now (“stop signs and traffic lights”). My point that this is a recent development, rather that something that was happening for quite a while.
 
The very fact that Tesla couldn't even solve phantom braking for so many years shows that its FSD team are either seriously incompetent or has bumped into some unforeseen technical hurdles that are impossible to be solved with the current sensors/techs on the car.
"Phantom braking" events are something that plagues all vehicle AI programs, including those that strap >$100,000 worth of sensors on their vehicles. As you refine your program it improves a lot. I rarely saw them myself, although now on some very large hills, caution about line-of-site and such leading to reduced speed. It is really about the natural outcome of developing with a failsafe ethos. Plus the psychology of being a "backseat driver" while behind the wheel. ;)

P.S. Alternatively you can shortcut like Uber did, flip the flag to disable the whole feature of safety-orientated preventative braking, and drive over a pedestrian.
 
"Phantom braking" events are something that plagues all vehicle AI programs, including those that strap >$100,000 worth of sensors on their vehicles. As you refine your program it improves a lot (I rarely saw them, although now on some very large hills). It is really about the natural outcome of developing with a failsafe ethos. Plus the psychology of being a "backseat driver" while behind the wheel. ;)

P.S. Alternatively you can shortcut like Uber did, flip the flag to disable the whole feature of safety-orientated preventative braking, and drive over a pedestrian.

Uber was definitely wrong. Tesla, however, are quite likely directly caused more deaths (by possibly saving many more at the same time, as many would argue). This is complicated.
 
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Yes, they are shipping now (“stop signs and traffic lights”). My point that this is a recent development, rather that something that was happening for quite a while.
Nope, that wasn't your "point" at all.

Will Tesla be able to deliver FSD with HW3.0 and current Model 3 sensor suite, ever?

Your "point" hinged on the erroneous idea that they aren't shipping anything right now.

P.S. And coincidentally I guess you argued that Tesla still came through when I bought before I was supposed to, but your standards?
 

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