Yes, anything is possible but this is for sure: the lawyers will get their 30+% and the owners will get like $100 credit at the Tesla store.
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Will Tesla be able to deliver FSD with HW3.0 and current Model 3 sensor suite, ever?
- Thread starter SergeyUser
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Yes, anything is possible but this is for sure: the lawyers will get their 30+% and the owners will get like $100 credit at the Tesla store.
Mobster
Member
Nope, not on any paperwork I have and I keep everything. Maybe written in blogs like this. Or in the press. I dunno. In any event I am not mad about being misled by Tesla Sales Consultants and Elon with ??promises?? ="declare that something will happen" (they quoted timelines)
I just would like ONE promise kept and that was about a timely re tool of my hw 2.0 up to 3.0 promised many time by Tesla over the past 2 years. (yes, before it even existed...but known that an upgrade was required). Just keep that promise so I can see all the stuff that the Model 3 owners are giddy about. After all, they took my $150,000 for the car, and any promised features lightning-fast.
I do agree if FSD gets litigated yet again.....Tesla will come across badly and customers as sympathetic. A mess I don't want to be a part of.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
This has already been debunked earlier in the thread.
Forward-looking statement - Wikipedia
In United States business law, a forward-looking statement or safe harbor statement is a statement that cannot sustain itself as merely a historical fact. A forward-looking statement predicts, projects, or uses future events as expectations or possibilities. These statements can often be misleading, as they can be mistaken for factual statements, while they are actually speculation.
In other words- when Elon says on an investor call or meeting we "hope to do X by Y date" there's no legal obligation to actually meet that goal, nor even a requirement for them to update you if they later realize they can't meet it.
The description of what you are buying when you buy FSD is an obligation Tesla owes you.
What Elon says during an investor presentation as a forward looking statement is not
That's pretty black and white under the law.
Tesla’s Youtube videos are advertisements, rather than forward-looking statements. They can therefore be linked to what Tesla promised to end-users, rather than to investors.
At the beginning of every earnings call, there is a disclaimer about forward-looking statements, and therefore whatever is said later is protected from liabilities under the law. The same can not be said about Youtube videos and what is shown in them.
birdsquared
Fan-man (too old to be a fanboi)
Thinking about the change in language that Knightshade has highlighted, I went to the Tesla website, and this is what the language says for Canada ($9200), U.S. ($7000) and then Ireland in Euros, UK in pounds, Hong Kong, Australia and New Zealand. It is just the US that has changed to "autosteer" as opposed to "automatic driving"
Honestly I have serious reservations that’s HW3 is really capable of handling city streets. Specifically blind alleys, blind / obstructed corners, pedestrians hidden behind street poles between themselves and the Tesla, etc. From what I’ve read and seen there seems to be serious limitations. But who knows.
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Mo City
Active Member
Mikedrives
Member
My guess: unions. Apparently the new LED EXIT signs in office buildings took a loooong time to become a reality because of the EXIT sign Incandescent Light Bulb Changing Union Local 403.
Didn’t Tesla state on their website, in 2019, “Coming later this year - Automatic Driving on City Streets”?
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CertLive
Member
Well you could water that down a whole ton. As in it does some automatic driving on city streets. I always thought this would require 5G for more precise local positional updates of everything that is going on. But in this case we are lead to believe the cars local processing power is able to work with city chaos.
I mean without a vote in this forum it seems clear the weight is heavy to the doubts on if proper FSD is achievable with the current sensor suite. Couple of things I have looked into. One Tesla has not failed to give current owners a hardware upgrade path i.e. with the new computer to bring everyone along (May this continue as retrofit causes less waste). The alternative as in LIDAR are also affected by heavy weather but I would not go as far to discount the technology being a viable FSD method. 2020 sure is going not only going to go down as a battery technological leap forward but as current owners grow a huge year for FSD on city streets for that extra $1000.
Is Starlink a required component for FSD?
Take the concept to an extreme. It’s the year 2041 & owners of Teslas are still waiting for FSD so they can turn it into a cash making machine on the ‘forever coming soon’ robotaxi service. Will the “we never promised an actual date” defence still cut the mustard in front of a judge? Doubt it.
The rail unions are very strong and have opposed automation fearing reduced crew size.
I can’t provide link, but AFAIR, Tesla mentioned there were no plans to use Starlink. More importantly, Starkink does not provide any unique capability required for FSD. My understanding is that you need to place ground stations for Starlink to work. You would rather do that in remote areas where people live rather than cover remote roads. Which will probably already drivable enough using FSD. And Starlink is not intended for areas with high density of people, like large cities.
SilverString
Member
SilverString
Member
What I take away from reading this is that if/when it does happen it is going to take cooperation at all levels, city, state, fed, civil, etc., and it is going to be slower than driving yourself.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yeah I posted earlier showing the most-of-2019 promise and what it changed to a few weeks ago.
Since robotaxis were never promised during the actual purchase of FSD, that'd be irrelevant.
A few thoughts regarding liability to all older, less conditional FSD buyers. If Tesla is smart, they can manage this in multiple ways. First of all, as someone mentioned earlier, many are desiring some form of transferability of the FSD feature across existing and future cars. What Tesla can do:
1. Offer existing and particularly older FSD buyers a way to convert their FSD purchase to a subscription of a condition appealing to them, for instance, allowing to use it under single account for, say, 5 years for ALL owned Teslas;
2. Allow FSD purchase to be transferred once to a newer purchased Tesla to "keep waiting", but at the same time removing older FSD definition to a newer, watered down version;
3. In a mean time, keep raising the price of FSD as an option to make subscription option more appealing (reducing liability at the same time);
4. Make time limit for how long existing FSD buyers can use options #1 and #2 to again use FOMO to increase conversion rate.
What I would do? I will definitely keep my original FSD option (at least I can't think of an option appealing enough for me to convert).
1. Offer existing and particularly older FSD buyers a way to convert their FSD purchase to a subscription of a condition appealing to them, for instance, allowing to use it under single account for, say, 5 years for ALL owned Teslas;
2. Allow FSD purchase to be transferred once to a newer purchased Tesla to "keep waiting", but at the same time removing older FSD definition to a newer, watered down version;
3. In a mean time, keep raising the price of FSD as an option to make subscription option more appealing (reducing liability at the same time);
4. Make time limit for how long existing FSD buyers can use options #1 and #2 to again use FOMO to increase conversion rate.
What I would do? I will definitely keep my original FSD option (at least I can't think of an option appealing enough for me to convert).
It was mentioned on Tesla website that Tesla buyers will be able to use "Tesla network" to earn money, wasn't it? This IS "robotaxi promise" to existing owners, as opposed to forward-looking statement to investors.
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