Will Tesla ever allow battery upgrades?

[wk057]

I currently do offer battery pack upgrades for the S/X, but very few takers. The price, at which I make a net of next to nothing, is still too high for most folks. I don't expect it to come down anytime soon.

To that end, I've completely designed a replacement for the Tesla battery pack using non-Tesla components, and have been driving a low-range (~50mi) test vehicle for the past ~10,000 miles or so. I fully intend to make 3rd party replacement packs a thing.

 

[ohmman]

I fully intend to make 3rd party replacement packs a thing.

This seems like a viable and sustainable concept as Tesla vehicles age out. Good luck with it.

 

[S100D]

WK

Well, also to upgrade to a 100 pack, you either need air suspension or new suspension. There's a couple other "gotchas", but nothing too serious. No software exists for a RWD 100 vehicle, so there's that... but that's addressable one way or another.

WK, what is the weight difference between a 90kw and a 100kw battery pack? I don’t understand why swapping a 100kw battery would require an air suspension or a different suspension other than weight. I have a 90D without air suspension.

I am sure that if a 100kw battery was available, there are a few people like yourself that could make the swap and get it to work.

 

[ksquaredman]

Ok, warning, this is a newbie question, I don't even own a Tesla (yet).

One of my considerations is can somebody get a used model 85, and when the batteries are worn out, and the car is that much older, put a new 60kw battery in it instead for a reduced cost?

I'm thinking at this point Teslas have reached enough production that there is a chance to find a salvage used pack, but the options are greater if you can put whatever you find in.

I admit I haven't researched thoroughly about this, I was just hoping as a quick question somebody would know and help.

Thanks.

 

[wk057]

WK


WK, what is the weight difference between a 90kw and a 100kw battery pack? I don’t understand why swapping a 100kw battery would require an air suspension or a different suspension other than weight. I have a 90D without air suspension.

I am sure that if a 100kw battery was available, there are a few people like yourself that could make the swap and get it to work.

The 100 kWh pack is about 14% heavier than a 90 pack, or about ~200 lbs. Might not seem like much, but it does affect the weight ratings of the vehicle. While you can get away with it in a one off where you never really load your car up with people or cargo, it's not something that should be done.

I'm not going to do a pack upgrade on a vehicle and leave it in a half-ass state like that with the original suspension, and Tesla can not do so either.

With air suspension, this is just a calibration change and it's done. With coils, they need to be replaced all around to keep the weight ratings. Additionally, going from a P85D or P90D to a P100D requires a full rear suspension upgrade, and possibly a motor upgrade, to actually become a P100D.

In the vast majority of upgrade cases, it's not just a pack swap that's needed to do the job right. Having done a bunch of pack changes over the years, nearly no two jobs are the same on these. You have to know the vehicles, the variations, and everything required to do it right... and unfortunately almost no one knows everything that's required to do it properly.

 

[AMPd]

The 100 kWh pack is about 14% heavier than a 90 pack, or about ~200 lbs. Might not seem like much, but it does affect the weight ratings of the vehicle. While you can get away with it in a one off where you never really load your car up with people or cargo, it's not something that should be done.

I'm not going to do a pack upgrade on a vehicle and leave it in a half-ass state like that with the original suspension, and Tesla can not do so either.

With air suspension, this is just a calibration change and it's done. With coils, they need to be replaced all around to keep the weight ratings. Additionally, going from a P85D or P90D to a P100D requires a full rear suspension upgrade, and possibly a motor upgrade, to actually become a P100D.

In the vast majority of upgrade cases, it's not just a pack swap that's needed to do the job right. Having done a bunch of pack changes over the years, nearly no two jobs are the same on these. You have to know the vehicles, the variations, and everything required to do it right... and unfortunately almost no one knows everything that's required to do it properly.

200 pounds is significant? That’s one person
The car can haul 5 grown adults plus 2 kids, yet 200 pounds of battery requires a suspension upgrade?

Kinda silly since the weight is spread out evenly.

 

[DocZ]

The 100 kWh pack is about 14% heavier than a 90 pack, or about ~200 lbs. Might not seem like much, but it does affect the weight ratings of the vehicle. While you can get away with it in a one off where you never really load your car up with people or cargo, it's not something that should be done.

I'm not going to do a pack upgrade on a vehicle and leave it in a half-ass state like that with the original suspension, and Tesla can not do so either.

With air suspension, this is just a calibration change and it's done. With coils, they need to be replaced all around to keep the weight ratings. Additionally, going from a P85D or P90D to a P100D requires a full rear suspension upgrade, and possibly a motor upgrade, to actually become a P100D.

In the vast majority of upgrade cases, it's not just a pack swap that's needed to do the job right. Having done a bunch of pack changes over the years, nearly no two jobs are the same on these. You have to know the vehicles, the variations, and everything required to do it right... and unfortunately almost no one knows everything that's required to do it properly.

Really cool info. Question for you, do you see a way to go bigger than a 100kwh pack via the third party route?

 

[MP3Mike]

200 pounds is significant? That’s one person
The car can haul 5 grown adults plus 2 kids

Can it really? Total weight capacity, for people and cargo, in a Model S is 931 lbs. The average weight of an adult is 169 lbs, 5 of those leave you with only 86 lbs. of capacity for your 2 kids and any additional luggage. So if you increase the battery weight by 200 lbs, you have dropped the capacity to 731 lbs meaning you could only put 4 adults in the car...

 

[AMPd]

Can it really? Total weight capacity, for people and cargo, in a Model S is 931 lbs. The average weight of an adult is 169 lbs, 5 of those leave you with only 86 lbs. of capacity for your 2 kids and any additional luggage. So if you increase the battery weight by 200 lbs, you have dropped the capacity to 731 lbs meaning you could only put 4 adults in the car...

So unless someone is constantly hauling a full car of people a suspension upgrade is not necessary.

 

[MP3Mike]

So unless someone is constantly hauling a full car of people a suspension upgrade is not necessary.

I would more go with: If someone is never going to load the car to, or past, 200lbs. under the original stated capacity a suspension update would not be required. But do you expect @wk057 to print a new label and stick it on the car with 200lbs less cargo capacity listed?

 

[AMPd]

I would more go with: If someone is never going to load the car to, or past, 200lbs. under the original stated capacity a suspension update would not be required. But do you expect @wk057 to print a new label and stick it on the car with 200lbs less cargo capacity listed?

Why would he need a new label?

 

[MP3Mike]

No need to be an a**hole, I’ve had my BMW modified and the shop just did the upgrade I asked for and never changed any labels.
Ive had a flex fuel system installed and the PREMIUM GASOLINE ONLY notice was not changed

It's about liability. Putting in a flex fuel system didn't remove capability from your car. i.e. continuing to put premium gasoline in the car wouldn't cause damage.

Not updating the label, and notifying the customer, could be really bad when they fully load up their car and the suspension fails.

 

[AMPd]

It's about liability. Putting in a flex fuel system didn't remove capability from your car. i.e. continuing to put premium gasoline in the car wouldn't cause damage.

Not updating the label, and notifying the customer, could be really bad when they fully load up their car and the suspension fails.

Fair enough

 

[wk057]

Looks like the weight/suspension/liability issue was addressed well enough above, thanks.

Really cool info. Question for you, do you see a way to go bigger than a 100kwh pack via the third party route?

Sure, at the cost of additional modifications, weight, etc. You won't fit more than 100 kWh worth of cells that exist today into the Model S pack formfactor, so it would require mods beyond that like additional batteries in the frunk, upgraded suspension, etc... probably not worth it.

If higher energy density cells come out someday, then it should be doable, though.

 

[gaswalla]

I suspect some on this thread have insight on the following option:

Tesla Model S or X battery upgrade 90D, P90D -> 100D, P100D | eBay

 

[wk057]

I suspect some on this thread have insight on the following option:

Tesla Model S or X battery upgrade 90D, P90D -> 100D, P100D | eBay

As I've noted elsewhere, this is a scam.

 

[Darmie]

I had a chance to watch a few vid's of people showing the difference on the new supercharger output to the old output. Interesting enough I'm seeing that the speed difference is minimal. Very close to the same speed if you approach the high SOC.

 

[Jgdixon]

I was able to upgrade the battery on my Model X P90D to a P100D.
Tesla did it for a few people and I was one of them. The badging and dashboard screen say P100D.
It is quite a unicorn as it is also a Signature Red with tan interior.

 

[wk057]

I was able to upgrade the battery on my Model X P90D to a P100D.
Tesla did it for a few people and I was one of them. The badging and dashboard screen say P100D.
It is quite a unicorn as it is also a Signature Red with tan interior.

I believe most Model X have air suspension, and the performance X has had the beefier rear suspension components since like VIN 2k or so... so it's not as big of a pain on the P X.

 

[Antonus]

I would assume it is safe to say that in 5 years, battery technology will have some advancement in which high density energy can be packed into a battery with less weight and volume required. Those are the batteries we would want to upgrade to. So that our (new)300-mi range Model 3 can be equipped with a new 400 or 500 mile battery in several years when our current batteries are aged and have received some degradation.