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Will Tesla punish their supporters, or refund $3,000?

B

banned-66611

Guest
Considering what they call FSD is not what you paid for, are they going to charge even more when the real FSD comes along? Maybe that will be an additional $3000 now...
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
Has anyone that pre-purchased FSD attempted to get a refund? I'm going to give it a couple days and see if Tesla comes to their senses before I go that route. I am fine with the price reduction on the car and EAP. I have enjoyed both and have used both so no issue for me legally or ethically. Paying extra for undelivered goods is another matter.
 
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omar

Member
Apr 5, 2016
195
249
bay area
Has anyone that pre-purchased FSD attempted to get a refund? I'm going to give it a couple days and see if Tesla comes to their senses before I go that route. I am fine with the price reduction on the car and EAP. I have enjoyed both and have used both so no issue for me legally or ethically. Paying extra for undelivered goods is another matter.

I've sent emails, no real responses yet. Let me know if anyone has luck out there.
 
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apsen

Member
Nov 15, 2018
189
111
somewhere
I have a friend who asked me today if I can give them a test ride this Friday, and I always love to show people how amazing the car is (and always will be) But internally It just felt so different talking positive about tesla today. I wasn't in the mood to explain to my friend that Tesla is doing a disservice to those who pre-ordered FSD already. Tesla is all word of mouth, and that excitement is just gone when you know that you are paying thousands more for the same thing we are all in line for. Just zapped my overall enthusiasm with Tesla lately.

Similar here. We are going to the party this Saturday that would have a bunch of technology savvy people and likely they would be interested in seeing my 3 but with this going on I'm not in the mood to show it to them. Even if I do the lack of my enthusiasm will definitely be noticed... And then we have another friend staying with us next Saturday...

Also a need to replace our other ICE car coming up in a year or two... There are couple of car makers I would not buy from and would discourage other people if I could. Tesla is still far from there but this is a step in that direction. I definitely am not going to make extra effort to be their customer anymore if the things stay as they are now.
 
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Jeffers0n

Member
Oct 25, 2018
153
139
Bay Area
Similar here. We are going to the party this Saturday that would have a bunch of technology savvy people and likely they would be interested in seeing my 3 but with this going on I'm not in the mood to show it to them. Even if I do the lack of my enthusiasm will definitely be noticed... And then we have another friend staying with us next Saturday...

Also a need to replace our other ICE car coming up in a year or two... There are couple of car makers I would not buy from and would discourage other people if I could. Tesla is still far from there but this is a step in that direction. I definitely am not going to make extra effort to be their customer anymore if the things stay as they are now.

Lease on my Volt is up this year. Was planning on a Model X to replace it. Might just lease the new leaf now. Have to vote with my wallet if I’m not happy.
 

frankusb

Member
Jan 2, 2019
55
41
Texas
I thought about it more. $2000 upgrade to FSD for existing EAP owners might be pretty reasonable. The new board might cost around $1000 to $1500 (compare to a high end nVidia gaming or AI GPU) and then another $500 to $1000 to cover labor and logistics.

This is true, but how does that reconcile with the cars that will still need to be upgraded (didn't purchase either EAP or FSD), and can now for the same price as EAP?

Oh, but all those people got the usage of EAP? Sure enough, I used it for one 8 hour round trip. It was glorious. But that's $250/hour, steep cost.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,176
Davis, CA
This is true, but how does that reconcile with the cars that will still need to be upgraded (didn't purchase either EAP or FSD), and can now for the same price as EAP?

Oh, but all those people got the usage of EAP? Sure enough, I used it for one 8 hour round trip. It was glorious. But that's $250/hour, steep cost.

Agreed. Not “fair”, but it could be a cost/revenue decision. Alternatives are 1) giving FSD for free to EAP owners or 2) keeping post delivery unlock prices higher than pre delivery prices or 3) give $3k refunds to people that bought FSD upfront. #1 and #3 costs them money. #2 would mean most people who didn’t buy EAP or EAP+FSD still won’t buy it. I don’t think any sane person would pay $11k to unlock FSD. But at $5k there will be a lot of takers. I think the situation is still evolving and maybe Tesla might end up doing #1 and/or #3 based on the backlash.
 
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VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,025
2,422
Maryland
Is it really? A traditional car company would keep MSRP the same, provide rebates to dealers while keeping invoice prices high, provide cash to cover finance costs and provide direct rebates to increase demand. It does happen with 5 figure purchase. The reality is that we have become so accustomed to being manipulated on price that I think we actually prefer to be lied to in these ways. It's clear from the reactions here, that the traditional car companies have it right. Tesla would be much better off offering gimmicks like free financing, rebates, and having dealers that they can also finance and rebate to control actual street prices and everyone would probably be happier.
Totally agree. Everything is on "sale" these days, which makes determining true value difficult. I have no issue with Tesla reducing prices to meet demand. I have an issue though when they advertise buy now or pay more later then totally renege.
 

apsen

Member
Nov 15, 2018
189
111
somewhere
Agreed. Not “fair”, but it could be a cost/revenue decision. Alternatives are 1) giving FSD for free to EAP owners or 2) keeping post delivery unlock prices higher than pre delivery prices or 3) give $3k refunds to people that bought FSD upfront. #1 and #3 costs them money. #2 would mean most people who didn’t buy EAP or EAP+FSD still won’t buy it. I don’t think any sane person would pay $11k to unlock FSD. But at $5k there will be a lot of takers. I think the situation is still evolving and maybe Tesla might end up doing #1 and/or #3 based on the backlash.

Or they could provide some benefit that doesn't cost them anything initially like free supercharging and/or free connectivity and/or any of the meaningful referral program gimmicks and/or service/store credit and or extended warranty and/or (fill in the blank)...
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,176
Davis, CA
Or they could provide some benefit that doesn't cost them anything initially like free supercharging and/or free connectivity and/or any of the meaningful referral program gimmicks and/or service/store credit and or extended warranty and/or (fill in the blank)...

Agreed. Any of those would probably calm (most of) the angry mob!
 

more863-also

Member
Aug 6, 2018
260
275
Colorado Springs, CO
I got bit by the lower price on the car and EAP, but to me the biggest deal is that FSD is never going to work on this car. It simply doesn't have the external sensing to drive safely on city streets autonomously.

Knowing how your car acts with EAP, would you trust it to reliably get through a 2-way stop sign on FSD where the perpendicular traffic doesn't have to stop? Even with faster processing speed? The fact is that even with HW3, this car is never going to be reliably Level 3 on most city streets because it simply doesn't have the situational awareness to do so.
 

Chris350

Member
Aug 17, 2017
475
413
Jupiter, Fla
Or they could provide some benefit that doesn't cost them anything initially like free supercharging and/or free connectivity and/or any of the meaningful referral program gimmicks and/or service/store credit and or extended warranty and/or (fill in the blank)...

I would gladly be happy with any of those.... Not looking for cash back....
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,645
15,729
NC
I got bit by the lower price on the car and EAP, but to me the biggest deal is that FSD is never going to work on this car. It simply doesn't have the external sensing to drive safely on city streets autonomously.

Knowing how your car acts with EAP, would you trust it to reliably get through a 2-way stop sign on FSD where the perpendicular traffic doesn't have to stop? Even with faster processing speed?


So I think you misunderstand what HW3 does.

It's not just "faster"

It's vastly more capable of using the sensor data for one.

HW2.x can't actually process all the cameras inputs at full rate/resolution.

And the size of the NN is orders of magnitude larger in HW3 too.


So using "how EAP acts" as any basis for how FSD with HW3 would work doesn't get you anywhere.

It's like saying "Well, that half-blind 10 month old human child keeps walking into things and tripping, so clearly a sighted 10 year old human child won't do much better!"
 

more863-also

Member
Aug 6, 2018
260
275
Colorado Springs, CO
So I think you misunderstand what HW3 does.

It's not just "faster"

It's vastly more capable of using the sensor data for one.

HW2.x can't actually process all the cameras inputs at full rate/resolution.

And the size of the NN is orders of magnitude larger in HW3 too.


So using "how EAP acts" as any basis for how FSD with HW3 would work doesn't get you anywhere.

It's like saying "Well, that half-blind 10 month old human child keeps walking into things and tripping, so clearly a sighted 10 year old human child won't do much better!"

A nice thought, but you have no idea how that will actually translate into real world performance. The fact is that there's no reason to believe you'll ever be able to, say, take a left hand turn on a two-way stop into traffic with FSD.
 

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