Will Tesla support CarPlay?

[elie06]

@ZBB : Yes, i do know the difference between CarPlay and AirPlay (I've been developing stuff on the Apple platform since 1893, so i do have a little idea about what i'm talking about, thank You very much)

I was only trying to explain, in the simplest possible way, that both technologies could very well be implemented if Tesla chooses to do so but :

- CarPlay will be tightly controlled by Apple and every app will have to be approved by Apple. There's very little chance that a competing navigation app or any video playing app will be allowed on CarPlay.

- AirPlay is a protocol that can be easily implemented by Tesla and that allows the 'Projected mode' that Elon Musk has been talking about on several occasions.

I do know that it's a viewing only option but any app running on an iPhone or an iPad can be displayed on a frame in the car's screen (which means several hundred thousand apps)

I also know that the phone is the controller but once you've launched Your App manually (or via Siri) You don't interact much with it while driving.

- If it's an alternate GPS app, it will guide You to Your destination (there are great GPS Apps for iOS)

- If it's a video and if You're willing to have it playing while running (for Your passengers obviously since you're a savvy driver), the video will play smoothly.

- If You get an e-Mail or Text, You can read it easily on the screen and answer with Siri.

- It it's a song You're playing, You can use Tesla's controls, which are fine, to switch tracks and still have the results display with Apple's interface, album art and lyrics, if You want to.

I could give You a thousand more examples but You see my point.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's a very easy to implement starting point.

I don't know about Your previous cars experiences but i can assure You that after having tried Mercedes, Audi and BMW infotainment, i would love to have Airplay on my Tesla until somebody figures out a better way to do it without crippling the content or the apps that i want to display in my car.

AirPlay may only be a way to mirror the phone screen on Tesla's screen but that's what i want and it's a very safe way to do it with zero risks to mess with the car's systems because, after all, it's only a video (and audio) signal.

Regards,

Elie

 

[Stoneymonster]

@ZBB : Yes, i do know the difference between CarPlay and AirPlay (I've been developing stuff on the Apple platform since 1893, so i do have a little idea about what i'm talking about, thank You very much)

Did you start developing on the original Mac Difference Engine? (sorry couldn't resist)

 

[elie06]

Did you start developing on the original Mac Difference Engine? (sorry couldn't resist)

No, in fact i used to develop in Lisa Clascal and then i was one of the 3 French developers working on a prototype Mac in the summer of 83, but that was a very long time ago and has nothing to do on the current topic, does it ?

:wink:

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I hope Tesla stays away from Apple's CarPlay. I do not trust Apple nor do I think they grok the automobile UX.

Also, from a strategic standpoint, everything Apple does is aimed at selling hardware. Apple hardware. Software, apps, content: always there to sell more hardware. How is CarPlay strategic for Apple if tbere's no hardware angle?

The iPhone is the dominant smartphone platform in the US. Why would you encourage Tesla to not support a smartphone used by the majority of smartphone users, and most likely owned by the majority of Model S owners? Just because you don't like Apple and don't trust them. I can't address your trust issues, but Apple is one of the most progressive and responsible companies on the planet. Having CarPlay is a way for car manufacturers to satisfy the needs of their customers, not necessarily a way to sell more iPhones. However, if your car supports CarPlay, it's a reinforcing reason to stay within the Apple ecosystem.

If you want to know Apple's corporate ethos, look no further than Tim Cook telling off a conservative think tank during last week's shareholder meeting. He basically said he doesn't care about ROI when it comes to doing "what's right", specifically mentioning building accessibility features for handicapped individuals into Apple's products. He told the questioner to sell his stock. This is one of many reasons why I support Apple.

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All well and good but if Tesla switches to iOS/CarPlay -- and face it, Apple is pushing this as an OS, not an app, but an operating system -- this will be a detriment to the abilty of Tesla to be agile, provide fast updates, etc. I think it would be insane for Tesla to surrender control of the UI/UX of their own products to Apple, who do not play nice and force you into their walled garden where you have to play on their terms.

Set up a false argument and then rail against it. Okay, whatever.

Can you give me a single example of how Apple is "pushing this as an OS, not an app"? What specific functionality exists in iOS and CarPlay that would be able to run the entire vehicle? With all due respect, there is absolutely no evidence to support your assertion.

 

[ElSupreme]

The iPhone is the dominant smartphone platform in the US.

Uhh. Not even close. Apple Cedes Market Share in Smartphone Operating System Market as Android Surges and Windows Phone Gains, According to IDC - prUS24257413

It's more like 70% Android; 15% iOS; 5% other.

Just because you don't like Apple and don't trust them. I can't address your trust issues, but Apple is one of the most progressive and responsible companies on the planet.

I still remember this: Apple Logging Locations of All iPhone Users - Slashdot

Sure they didn't really look to have done anything with that, but the trust was lost. Why even have that file on the phone? And lets not forget all their Foxconn dealings. They seem to sue everyone, Samsung over a rectangular phone with rounded corners, really? Microsoft over 'look and feel' in their operating system. Their obscene tax sheltering.

Having CarPlay is a way for car manufacturers to satisfy the needs of their customers, not necessarily a way to sell more iPhones. However, if your car supports CarPlay, it's a reinforcing reason to stay within the Apple ecosystem.

If you want to know Apple's corporate ethos, look no further than Tim Cook telling off a conservative think tank during last week's shareholder meeting. He basically said he doesn't care about ROI when it comes to doing "what's right", specifically mentioning building accessibility features for handicapped individuals into Apple's products. He told the questioner to sell his stock. This is one of many reasons why I support Apple.

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Set up a false argument and then rail against it. Okay, whatever.

Can you give me a single example of how Apple is "pushing this as an OS, not an app"? What specific functionality exists in iOS and CarPlay that would be able to run the entire vehicle? With all due respect, there is absolutely no evidence to support your assertion.

That being said. Why should Tesla use a propritary solution, when a generic solution for ALL mobile phone manufacturers would be the best course of action.

 

[JohnQ]

Let's at least target some facts ... market share is completely different than installed base. Installed base is what's relevant as product turnover (replacing with a newer device) can impact market share with no impact on installed base as an example.

Pasted chart gives an idea of the installed base for major OS (in raw numbers rather than as a % of total). Top is market share (number of units shipped), bottom is installed base. Users on a given platform. Simply stated, Android is more prevalent in the US but it's not 70%.

 

[Stoneymonster]

I wish this conversation would stick to the potential of this in the Model S and possible integrations modes and uses. I can go just about any where else on the Internet for an Apple vs. Android battle. There are no new arguments here.

 

[dsm363]

Exactly. The people with iOS devices likely want this. It wouldn't take over the Tesla OS, just occupy one media window. Those with other devices can hopefully get better integration as well.

 

[Discoducky]

Great video that really shows CarPlay interaction and that it is still a V1 product. Not sure I'd want this on the Model S/X at this point, but it is still cool.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/04/apple-carplay-ferrari-ff-hands-on/

Limitations:

1. Does not support or did not show gesture (aka swipe, pinch, drag)
2. Does not support or did not show satellite map support (only 2D, although their appears to be a 3D button)
3. The screen on this video was very small. Not sure what the support is for larger screens (aka 17")
4. Hardwire connection support only (no Bluetooth or wifi connection to the car)
5. Since CarPlay is built on top of the in-car infotainment or in-car OS the interaction model to the CarPlay app will most likely be different for every car and thus performance, bugs and feature support will most likely be different. I hope not, but I would imagine that as issues arise with the system it will be Apple who will need to make updates as the in-car updates will most likely take much longer to produce and ship.
6. Does not support or did not show more complex speech interaction (I'm sure it supports more with Siri, but I want to see it/hear it)

New information (to me anyway):

1. Apps will appear as available in the car once the app is updated to support CarPlay. That is cool! Once the TM SDK is available I would imagine CarPlay support could be built. Need to read the iOS 7.1 SDK to see how involved this is.
2. CarPlay is just an app on top of the car's infotainment system (this is shown at the 7 minute mark in the video).

 

[elie06]

Exactly. The people with iOS devices likely want this. It wouldn't take over the Tesla OS, just occupy one media window. Those with other devices can hopefully get better integration as well.

i totally agree with the last two posts !

Let's stick with the subject of integrating the iPhone contents into the car display in a non obtrusive way.
It so happens that there are at least two ways of integrating the iPhone and that's what i want.

I respect freedom of choice, so if Android or Win Phone users also get a way of connecting to the car all the better, but it's a thread on CarPlay which so happens to be an Apple technology so maybe this thread concerns Apple users trying to get an answer to their needs.

I know i am anyway.

kind regards,

Elie

 

[liuping]

Exactly. The people with iOS devices likely want this. It wouldn't take over the Tesla OS, just occupy one media window. Those with other devices can hopefully get better integration as well.

This is what makes the most sense.

I don't understand why some people are so against supporting the iPhone. It does not preclude supporting Android and Windows phones. I'm sure they will have (or already have) something very similar, and I think Tesla should support as many as it makes sense to (Windows Phone installed base may be too smal for now, etc)

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Let's at least target some facts ... market share is completely different than installed base. Installed base is what's relevant as product turnover (replacing with a newer device) can impact market share with no impact on installed base as an example.

Also, I'd like to add that iPhone (and Apple Product in general) tend to skew more toward the same group of people Tesla skews towards, so for Tesla Owners iPhone probably has higher penetration than Android.

Here are a few polls from this site:
Do You Have a Smartphone?
iPhone vs Android
Poll: How many Tesla owners are also Apple users?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Forgive me if this is slightly off topic, but I feel that I need to correct some inaccuracies in a previous response to my post.

Uhh. Not even close. Apple Cedes Market Share in Smartphone Operating System Market as Android Surges and Windows Phone Gains, According to IDC - prUS24257413

It's more like 70% Android; 15% iOS; 5% other.

You're numbers are way, way off.

Android at 51.6%, iOS at 43.9%: Mobile stats: Android leads in US with 50.6% market share, iOS slips - GeekWire

Android at 51.5%, iOS at 41.8%: Apple Inc iOS Edges Closer to Android's Platform Market Share in the U.S. - International Business Times

While not correct that iOS has majority share, it's very close. It's certainly close enough that Tesla cannot ignore that nearly half of its customers are entrenched in the iOS ecosystem and are asking for a solution. You may not like iOS, but I do and so do many other people. Once that integration is introduced, you will certainly have the option to not use it.

I still remember this: Apple Logging Locations of All iPhone Users - Slashdot

Sure they didn't really look to have done anything with that, but the trust was lost. Why even have that file on the phone?

I don't suppose you've looked at the telemetry section of your Model S owner's manual, have you? If you think your iPhone is ratting you out, you should take a look at what Tesla is reporting back to its mother ship. If one concerns you, so should the other.

And lets not forget all their Foxconn dealings.

You mean the fact that one of Apple's vendors, Foxconn, was violating Chinese labor laws? I don't see how that is Apple's fault. Would you like to be held responsible for the behavior of your contractors? When was the last time you asked your cleaning lady to give you a W-9?

They seem to sue everyone, Samsung over a rectangular phone with rounded corners, really? Microsoft over 'look and feel' in their operating system.

This shows how little you know about the actual case and the facts behind the case. Which, by the way, Apple won to the tune of almost $1 Billion in damages from Samsung. The jury found Samsung violated Apple's patents in rather spectacular fashion, so your opinion really doesn't hold much water when compared to the decision of 12 jurors who were actually involved in the trial.

Their obscene tax sheltering.

You mean their LEGAL tax sheltering. Don't you take all of the tax deductions that you're entitled to? Do you own any rental properties? If so, are you claiming depreciation on those rental properties even though the actual property values are rising? Aren't you guilty of the same tax minimizing strategies? I suppose if you're going to criticize Apple over their tax strategy, you should probably stop taking any deductions also. Fair is fair.

Why should Tesla use a propritary solution, when a generic solution for ALL mobile phone manufacturers would be the best course of action.

Because said proprietary solution is used by almost half of Tesla's customers. I'm not sure why, if your Model S mirrors your iOS interface via CarPlay, you would find that threatening and negative in any way. Doing so does not preclude Tesla from offering a similar mode for Android devices. Tesla's system is agnostic when it comes to your smartphone operating system, I'm sure Tesla was forward thinking enough to allow both Android and iOS to work with their (Tesla's) proprietary system. Oh wait, you said proprietary was bad... Tesla's OS is completely proprietary. I guess you should sell your car, then?

 

[Gizmotoy]

This is what makes the most sense.

I don't understand why some people are so against supporting the iPhone. It does not preclude supporting Android and Windows phones. I'm sure they will have (or already have) something very similar, and I think Tesla should support as many as it makes sense to (Windows Phone installed base may be too smal for now, etc)

Pretty much wondering the same thing myself. I see a lot of "I hope Tesla doesn't support this. I want Android/Windows Phone support." What sense does that make? iPhone support doesn't preclude Android/Windows Phone support. If they had something like CarPlay (and you can be sure they will, eventually) you'd want that supported.

Tesla has the benefit of being agnostic. They can support iPhone. They can support Android. They can support Windows Phone. Expecting one open solution that supports all three major mobile OSes within the lifetime of the current Model S is a pipe dream. Best to integrate support for them as they become available.

Limitations:

1. Does not support or did not show gesture (aka swipe, pinch, drag)
2. Does not support or did not show satellite map support (only 2D, although their appears to be a 3D button)
3. The screen on this video was very small. Not sure what the support is for larger screens (aka 17")

I'm not terribly surprised by any of these. As far as I'm aware, while touchscreens in cars are becoming common, the Model S is the only vehicle touchscreen with multi-touch. They also typically use (relatively) low resolution displays, and using satellite imagery would obscure the roads. Most vehicle displays are small, so it's not surprising they'd optimize it for smaller screens.

 

[Lerxt]

I have no doubt Tesla will support all phones. There may be an issue with Android fragmentation and possibly the virus threat that is so serious with Android.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

While not correct that iOS has majority share, it's very close. It's certainly close enough that Tesla cannot ignore that nearly half of its customers are entrenched in the iOS ecosystem and are asking for a solution. You may not like iOS, but I do and so do many other people. Once that integration is introduced, you will certainly have the option to not use it.

Lobby Apple to pay Tesla to add it. Or contact Tesla and ask how much it would cost to get it added and then get together with other owners and pay for it.

This is an all-or-nothing thing, which is precisely the kind of thing suited to being a paid or service-provider-subsidized option.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I expect that Tesla's approach would instead to work on firming up a public API and then let Apple write the app.

We're still almost a year off from the original wild estimate for having APIs available, and given the complexity of such a task and the accuracy of the estimates so far, I wouldn't be surprised if it's much longer than that. I don't think people are going to wait 18 months or more for basic smartphone support available on even entry-level volume economy cars. They'll have to do something well before that.

It may or may not be this, but they'll certainly do something. I think this would be cool, but I'd be relatively happy with even basic support and control.

That said, I seriously doubt you'll ever get Apple (or Google/Microsoft for that matter) to write a fully-custom design for, what, maybe 10k customers at this point? Apple already wrote the "apps." They have their iPod integration APIs that literally every major automaker uses, and this new thing. Those are the options.

 

[brandonmbeard]

Why does this interface look remarkably similar to what we currently have? - Watch Apple CarPlay in Action

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Lobby Apple to pay Tesla to add it. Or contact Tesla and ask how much it would cost to get it added and then get together with other owners and pay for it.

This is an all-or-nothing thing, which is precisely the kind of thing suited to being a paid or service-provider-subsidized option.

Absolutely false. CarPlay integrates with your car's existing systems. It does not replace or take over your car's systems. Tesla absolutely will offer this integration as a convenience feature for its customers, as every other auto manufacturer will at some point. This isn't about cost, it's about convenience. I look forward to the update.

 

[jive_devil]

The stuff I'm reading here reminds me of other tech boards where Android vs. iOS debates run rampant.

I think most here seem to think Tesla should (or even will) support all phone systems. However, I think the pushback has more to do with the reality that there are limited resources at Tesla dedicated to this sort of thing, especially considering there is a long list of other interface issues that people want fixed (i.e. where is the API?!).

So in some sense, I view this more as an issue about priorities. If we didn't have to prioritize and resources were not a problem, supporting CarPlay would be a slam dunk.

 

[liuping]

So in some sense, I view this more as an issue about priorities. If we didn't have to prioritize and resources were not a problem, supporting CarPlay would be a slam dunk.

I agree there are other priority at the moment, but at some point soon it needs to be addressed.

It is embarrassing that a $16k Kia Forte has good iPhone integration and a $100k Tesla has nothing...