Will the 12v battery be eliminated any time soon?

[Tes La Ferrari]

It seems like a bit of a relic in such a advances car.

Even if 2 batteries are required, perhaps a partition in the main battery or different type of battery that has a much longer life ( akin to the main battery pack ) could work ?

 

[murphyS90D]

No, the 12 volt battery is needed to connect the HVB to the car. A crashed car is "safed" by cutting the link that connects the 12 volt battery to the car. 400 volts DC is usually instant death to anyone that gets it across their heart.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

No, the 12 volt battery is needed to connect the HVB to the car. A crashed car is "safed" by cutting the link that connects the 12 volt battery to the car. 400 volts DC is usually instant death to anyone that gets it across their heart.

Could they partition a portion of it that was stepped down ? or possibly have a smaller "lap-top-esque" battery that is a direct replacement for the 12v but lasts the life of the car ?

 

[murphyS90D]

Could they partition a portion of it that was stepped down ? or possibly have a smaller "lap-top-esque" battery that is a direct replacement for the 12v but lasts the life of the car ?

I am not aware of any rechargeable battery that will last a "lifetime". I have 8 laptops at the moment and only the three newest ones have working batteries. I just recycled the 3 oldest laptops and they also had dead batteries.

They can't use a section of the HVB to provide 12 volts. It would have to be at the bottom of the HVB. The potential between the 12 volt lead and the top of the HVB would be 388 volts (400 - 12). That would be extremely dangerous.

 

[Tam]

Could they partition a portion of it that was stepped down ? or possibly have a smaller "lap-top-esque" battery that is a direct replacement for the 12v but lasts the life of the car ?

Tesla did take your advice and use part of the high voltage battery as a 12V source for its original Tesla Roadster (less than 2.0 version.)

Lacking a separate 12V battery was laughed at by GM and Nissan when the New York Times published the reasons:

Tesla Battery Failures Make ‘Bricking’ a Buzzword

Tesla abandoned your advice and it has started installing in a separate 12V battery since Roadster 2.0 until now with S, X, and 3.

Two years ago, Elon Musk did talk about eliminating the 12V system to save money so your idea is still alive and well!

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

Tesla did take your advice and use part of the high voltage battery as a 12V source for its original Tesla Roadster (less than 2.0 version.)

Lacking a separate 12V battery was laughed at by GM and Nissan when the New York Times published the reasons:

Tesla Battery Failures Make ‘Bricking’ a Buzzword

Tesla abandoned your advice and it has started installing in a separate 12V battery since Roadster 2.0 until now with S, X, and 3.

Two years ago, Elon Musk did talk about eliminating the 12V system to save money so your idea is still alive and well!

Thanks @Tam. Very informative , I wasn't aware that they had looked into it.

If Elon is interested in eliminating the battery, then it has a good chance of being done

 

[P100D_Me]

Elon Musk did talk about eliminating the 12V system to save money so your idea is still alive and well!

Probably not choosing a very specialised 12V battery might have helped there

 

[SSedan]

The 12volt powers contactors which physically disconnect the HV pack. It is a significant safety element.

 

[Tam]

The 12volt powers contactors which physically disconnect the HV pack. It is a significant safety element.

High Voltage safety was already achieved with Roadster <2.0 that had no separate 12V battery.

It was abandoned not because of safety but because of cost.

It is much cheaper to sacrifice a separate 12V battery than an integrated 12V/400V pack.

 

[MarkS22]

Two years ago, Elon Musk did talk about eliminating the 12V system to save money so your idea is still alive and well!

It was (is?) supposed to debut with the Y. The Y appears to be much closer to the Model 3 than anticipated, so I have doubts they're still going down that path. It would be a pleasant surprise at this point. If the Y does eliminate the 12v, I would expect the other cars (especially the 3) to eventually refresh without one. This is a company that left off an inexpensive rain sensor to save money. We know they love throwing away vestigial parts from traditional car manufacturing.

 

[P100D_Me]

This is a company that left off an inexpensive rain sensor to save money. We know they love throwing away vestigial parts from traditional car manufacturing.

And that has worked out so well for them, shame they weren't visiting Scotland when that idea went through engineering assessment.

 

[Ostrichsak]

It was (is?) supposed to debut with the Y. The Y appears to be much closer to the Model 3 than anticipated, so I have doubts they're still going down that path. It would be a pleasant surprise at this point. If the Y does eliminate the 12v, I would expect the other cars (especially the 3) to eventually refresh without one. This is a company that left off an inexpensive rain sensor to save money. We know they love throwing away vestigial parts from traditional car manufacturing.

Is that why my $150k cars can't sense rain as well as my 13 year old 50k cars?

Yeah, better keep the 12v battery.

 

[Droschke]

his is a company that left off an inexpensive rain sensor

I did not know Model S has no rain sensor. So, how does my rain sensing wipers work when it rains?

 

[ucmndd]

I did not know Model S has no rain sensor. So, how does my rain sensing wipers work when it rains?

AP2+ cars use the autopilot cameras and computer to detect rain as opposed to a dedicated sensor.

 

[Droschke]

AP2+ cars use the autopilot cameras and computer to detect rain as opposed to a dedicated sensor.

Oh, thanks. Another reason to be happy about my 2015 S85 AP1.

 

[FlatSix911]

I did not know Model S has no rain sensor. So, how does my rain sensing wipers work when it rains?

AP2+ cars use the autopilot cameras and computer to detect rain as opposed to a dedicated sensor.

What does the AP1 car use for rain sensing... I thought they also used the front mounted camera behind the rear view mirror?

 

[ucmndd]

What does the AP1 car use for rain sensing... I thought they also used the front mounted camera behind the rear view mirror?

AP1 cars use a separate dedicated sensor (made by Bosch I believe) in the camera housing, but it’s not using the camera itself. Tesla eliminated this sensor with AP2 and (about a year and a half later) developed a rain sensing neural net that uses the cameras and AP computer.

It works... ish.

 

[P100D_Me]

developed a rain sensing neural net that uses the cameras and AP computer.

That still says 'Beta' where you turn it on/off

 

[ucmndd]

That still says 'Beta' where you turn it on/off

And works as billed!

 

[Ostrichsak]

I did not know Model S has no rain sensor. So, how does my rain sensing wipers work when it rains?

Not very well, that's how.