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Will the base Model 3 be front wheel drive and the high end version all wheel drive?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by jdevo2004, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. jdevo2004

    jdevo2004 Member

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    Front wheel drive vehicles are more fuel efficient than rear wheel drive vehicles. This is evident in the increased mileage of the new Tesla S all wheel drive versions where at highway speeds the front wheels are mostly powered allowing for greater energy savings and longer range. The all wheel drive version of the S85 is 7.5% more efficient than the normal version.
    Since it is probably just as cheap for Tesla to mount the motor in the front as it is in the back I believe they may go this route to increase efficiency for the low cost model 3 and offer all wheel drive as an option. I would assume they would go with something like 150hp standard in the front with an optional rear motor of 150hp or 300hp for the performance version of the Model 3. A 7.5% smaller battery pack is a large savings when it comes to keeping costs below $35000 for the base model.


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  2. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

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    I'd like to see some source for the first statement. The increase in efficiency in the D comes from the fact that the two motors can be "geared" differently.

    O
     
  3. Heart of Gold

    Heart of Gold Member

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    I see Omar beat me to it, while I was spell checking, but here is my reply
    anyway...:

    The increase in efficiency doesn't come from the placement of the motors,
    but from the fact that the front and rear motors are differently
    geared and because the power gets shifted to what will be most
    efficient for the current conditions.

    Because of this I think the base model 3 will have AWD.

    H
     
  4. jdevo2004

    jdevo2004 Member

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    Source: Google it.
     
  5. TimV

    TimV Member

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    #5 TimV, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
    I Googled it, and as it applies to Tesla, you're wrong. The only reason FWD ICE cars are more efficient is because there is less mass associated with the drive train. On a Tesla, the motor is placed directly between the wheels, so the advantage simply isn't there.

    Also, there is exactly 0% chance that the Model 3 will be FWD. More likely is that it will be RWD standard with the option for AWD, like the Model S is now. The other possibility is that it is just offered with AWD standard. This car is supposed to compete with BMW, Audi, etc. The driving dynamic of a FWD car just won't cut it.
     
  6. Omer

    Omer Member

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    As others have stated there is no efficiency gain in an electric car between FWD and RWD. The new dual motor setup achieves greater efficiency by using 2 smaller motors rather than one large motor therefore allowing the car to be more efficient when possible. With one large 380hp motor, you are always using the same motor regardless of if you are accelerating or driving steady state on highway. With the new setup you can use both smaller 180hp motors together during acceleration and therefore have the same or better performance as the single 380hp motor. However, during steady state driving most power can come from one single motor and thus allowing you to spend more time utilizing a single smaller motor or both motors operating at less than full power. Similar to cylinder deactivation in ICE cars where a V8 might deactivate down to just 4 cylinders on the highway.
     
  7. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    FWD is generally used as a cost saving measure for ICE cars. No reason to do that for electric cars. I'd guess Model 3 will either be AWD standard, or RWD with the option of dual motor AWD. No chance it will be FWD
     
  8. art

    art Member

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    #8 art, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    i think now they can just go to parts bin and install the 188 hp motor from the s 85 into the model 3s rear end for the base model and for the upgrade they can install the other 188 hp up front on the 385d.just a guess? and in 2016 they could have new battery cells by that time ,im guessing 5000 cells instead of 7000 to make 85kwh less weight in the battery pack less weight for a smaller car less frontal area = more range faster car, 350 range?
     
  9. Bardlebee

    Bardlebee Member

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    I don't think Dual Motors will be on a base Model 3. I think the Model 3 will be base mileage of 200 miles and then the Dual Motors will be an add on that will hopefully add 30+ more miles. I could see it being a huge benefit to revenue as I would think most would get the AWD especially if it adds on to mileage. Since the car will be smaller, the pack could be a 60Kwh and it could expand to be an 85Kwh. I am thinking for a Model 3 that goes 300 miles, you'll be spending 45-50k. But that is a hell of a lot cheaper then the current setup now for the Model S.
     
  10. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Plus one with minor correction
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    How about being nice and providing the link?
     
  12. djplong

    djplong Member

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    FWD is more efficient than RWD for an additional reason. It is more efficient to PULL a car than to push it. When you push a car, your front wheels are digging into the ground to some degree. Look at history. How many chariots and wagons were designed with the horses in back? In the winter, do you push your sled up the hill or do you pull it?
     
  13. jdevo2004

    jdevo2004 Member

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    After a little more research it seems that the front vs rear efficiency is moot for electric vehicles.
     
  14. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Look at history: the wheel was invented for this reason, and with a perfectly round wheel the difference is slight at best.
     
  15. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

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    I think gen3 will be rwd and have a smaller motor than the modelS, but still achieve a good 0-60 time because;
    The weight of the car is less (size of car and battery)
    The drag co. Will be equal or less than the S having thinner tyres and smaller body.
    Rwd are fun to drive, why make a tesla no fun?
     
  16. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

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    There is another reason I don't think you will ever see a FWD Tesla. FWD drives are notorious for torque steer and understeer. I am not sure if torque steer is an issue with EVs (could be wrong about that), but understeer certainly would--its bad enough with the 4-bangers they put in low-end cars, I cannot imagine it when putting down Tesla levels of power--lots of folks in ditches.
     
  17. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member

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    Great points.

    Another reason car makers like FWD cars is the fact that the ICE engine weight helps give better traction in slippery conditions (like snow). Teslas will have balance front to rear, unlike an ICE that has the majority of it's weight forward (even more so if the gas tank is near empty).
     
  18. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    This is correct, but just to play devil's advocate, there may be an argument for placing the motor up front: It'll have ready access to fresh air to cool the drive unit.
     
  19. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    FWD drive cars have better traction and bad weather handling dynamics when the majority of the mass is in the front, such as front engine ICE cars. When the mass balance becomes more even, such as 50:50 this advantage falls away. I find it unlikely that Tesla will redesign the Gen 3 platform such that all of the mass of the battery is in front. I expect a floor mounted battery similar to the Model S. This would give it 50:50 balance similar to the model S. Therefore I find it unlikely that the Gen 3 will be front wheel drive, because torque steer aside it would be a poor handling vehicle. So, AWD or RWD for Gen 3. Now could we see a FWD economy car from Tesla one day? Possibly. I would expect that would take a big jump in battery energy density to fit it all in front with the motor. But, on the other hand it may never happen, because Tesla has found that the skateboard design is so superior to all others in terms safety and simplicity. Better to keep the big crumple zone up front and the mass as low as possible. The existing electric cars such as the leaf that have the motor in front and the battery in back are just a legacy of the ICE platform that it is built on. As electric cars begin to be clean sheet designs, such as the Model S, I expect FWD drive cars to disappear.
     
  20. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    +1 Great perspective
     

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