Hey, you two, get in line. You will engage in any and all baseless speculation, you will profess your "expertise" on advanced physics, chemistry, and economics, you will treat rumors as gospel, and you damned well better not ever admit again that we, somehow, don't know all the answers yet about the Model 3.
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Will the Mod3 PXXD be quicker than the S?
- Thread starter wallet.dat
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Hey, you two, get in line. You will engage in any and all baseless speculation, you will profess your "expertise" on advanced physics, chemistry, and economics, you will treat rumors as gospel, and you damned well better not ever admit again that we, somehow, don't know all the answers yet about the Model 3.
Garlan Garner
Banned
LOL - There is no such thing as "too much torque" as far as I am concerned. Wider tires would be step 1 for me.
M3 fans are known to have a thing for standing in line.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
While the 3 is 20% smaller, an equally spec'd 3 will have the same heavy battery pack as the S, and a steel frame and body on top of that. It won't be a lightweight.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Incomplete picture painted here. If only the battery was limiting, the P85D and P90D vehicles would have two small motors rather than one large and one small.
What you were told is in direct contradiction to Tesla's website.
Model S | Tesla Motors
Options section
Observe the "Motor Power" differences between the P90D ("503 hp rear, 259 hp front") and the 90D ("259 hp front and rear").
I've fairly confident this is incorrect. I believe Model 3 and Model S with fundamentally different pack shape and structure.
Slightly out of topic but why can't Tesla get these motors and drive control to be rock solid reliable? Seems quite straight forward to test long-term reliability by modeling power transients? Or is it that individual components vary drastically in quality that any system modeling is useless? Whatever it is, and coming from a Toyota hybrid background, I am worried to read about ModelSs some less than 5K miles failing. Sure Toyota hybrids are incomparable in terms of absolute power range and transients encountered in the system but it is very very uncommon for a motor or electric drive components to fail in a Toyota.
Anyway sorry for hijacking this interesting thread but I think those of us waiting for Model 3s should stress the need for a reliable car just as everything else (like performance) is important.
Anyway sorry for hijacking this interesting thread but I think those of us waiting for Model 3s should stress the need for a reliable car just as everything else (like performance) is important.
garsh
Re Member
The Model 3 is much narrower than the S. Also, a cutaway view of the Model 3 battery pack was behind Elon, and the battery pack as shown there looked much different. Go to 9:52 in the video below to see it.
My steel eGolf gets almost 5 miles per kWh. I suspect, even with steel, M3 power/weight will achieve >4 miles per kWh.
@Jayc, please note that 99% drive unit replacements are not failures but to abate noise. I'm sure what they learn here feeds back to R&D. One example of why Tesla benefits from 5+ years of S iterations before shipping 3.
@Jayc, please note that 99% drive unit replacements are not failures but to abate noise. I'm sure what they learn here feeds back to R&D. One example of why Tesla benefits from 5+ years of S iterations before shipping 3.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I follow this guy named Jack Rickard on YouTube
For some reason - He spends his money buying Tesla Drive Trains - Breaks them down - And does tests on them. I have watched countless hours of his videos and contrary to Tesla's website - he has showed live on one of his tremendously long videos that the only difference between his MS and the P version is software. He demonstrated that he has mimicked Tesla's software that Tesla provides and in some tests provided direct motor to battery full out current draw and didn't have to change hardware.
If you have a few day's of spare time.....you might find his videos interesting - or maybe not.
I trust people who actually do things as opposed to speculate. I love speculation though - Its exciting to hear the wheels in peoples brain moving - even if its fruitless.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
You forgot one more....
You WILL completely ignore any and all previous threads, and begin new ones with your own speculations, ad nauseum.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Come on guys - speculate away. I love it.
What else are we going to do for the next 18-24 months of waiting? This is fun. It makes the time go by faster.
Speculate? Guess? Who cares? I'm not going to retract my deposit or desire to have an M3 either way.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Agreed, but a vast majority of the speculation has already been done, long before the reveal. Until EM tosses more crumbs out for us, there's really nothing new to go over.
One thing people are forgetting is new battery technology. With the Gigafactory batteries the energy density maybe greatly improved which could substantially lower the weight of the batterypack. As for speed, the benchmark in the Model 3's class is the BMW M3. Guarantied that the performance version will top the M3 in every category.
I believe the range and performance of the base, larger battery 3XXD is going to surprise a lot of people. My guess is that the 3PXXD will have well under 3.0s 0-60 times and will very likely be closer to 2.5s. Would not surprise me if the SP100D available when the M3 is introduced has similar performance.
Sure, I guess that also explains why the P rear drive unit is a different part number, right? Elaborate ruse by Tesla to conceal that they are actually producing a more expensive drive unit for both cars and software limiting it. Though I am not an EE, it is my understanding that revving an electric motor up to a certain power level above 'spec' is often possible, even though the motor is not rated for continuous duty at that higher output. So, not sure I trust the bench tests any more than Tesla's website.
All yours, @brianman
A bit of clarification to some mis-information:
The 85D has the same smaller motor front and back. The older rear wheel drive 85 had the same size rear motor as the P85. The motors do seem to be similar but have different part numbers and it is believed that the P85 rear motor has higher rated transistors in the inverter for delivering the higher power
From comparisons the M3 seems to be a couple inches shorter for the wheel base. Musk and Straubel have said they would make slightly larger cells then the current 18650s, it is speculated they will be 20700s and as the CAD model behild Musk during the M3 debut it showed the batteries grouped in 8 modules vs the MS 16 modules.
The MS Ludicrous upgrade not only contains new software but the battery pack has upgraded contactors (inconel) as well as pyro fuses to raise the max draw from 1200 amps to 1500 amps.
With a large enough battery pack to supply full voltage and amperage then the motors would be able to run at the top motor rating power of 691hp. Currently the car is traction limited up to ~30mph, so the increase in power wouldn't be noticeable until the higher speeds where it could then keep max acceleration until being limited by the motor output.
The 85D has the same smaller motor front and back. The older rear wheel drive 85 had the same size rear motor as the P85. The motors do seem to be similar but have different part numbers and it is believed that the P85 rear motor has higher rated transistors in the inverter for delivering the higher power
From comparisons the M3 seems to be a couple inches shorter for the wheel base. Musk and Straubel have said they would make slightly larger cells then the current 18650s, it is speculated they will be 20700s and as the CAD model behild Musk during the M3 debut it showed the batteries grouped in 8 modules vs the MS 16 modules.
The MS Ludicrous upgrade not only contains new software but the battery pack has upgraded contactors (inconel) as well as pyro fuses to raise the max draw from 1200 amps to 1500 amps.
With a large enough battery pack to supply full voltage and amperage then the motors would be able to run at the top motor rating power of 691hp. Currently the car is traction limited up to ~30mph, so the increase in power wouldn't be noticeable until the higher speeds where it could then keep max acceleration until being limited by the motor output.
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