Will the "Model 2" have a steering wheel and pedals?

[diplomat33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1433590090526232577

According to this tweet about the Tesla employee meeting, Elon said that he is considering the "Model 2" not having a steering wheel or pedals. So I thought we could do a poll: will the "Model 2" have a steering wheel and pedals?

Also, I am putting "Model 2" in quotes because Elon has said that it will not be called that. It is simply a placeholder for the $25k Tesla since we don't have a name yet.

There are several things to consider:
1) We don't know when the "Model 2" will enter production.
2) We don't know what the state of FSD will be when the "Model 2" does enter production.
3) Regulations about steering wheels and pedals is tricky. I believe most cars are still required to have a steering wheel or pedal unless the speed is less than 25 mph or if you get an exemption. So there could be some regulatory hurdles there.
4) There are advantages in keeping a steering wheel and pedal as a back-up in case the car gets stuck or FSD stops working (ex: FSD computer is down).
5) Tesla could potentially use the "Model 2" as a geofenced robotaxi. That would be different from removing the steering wheel and pedals from a car that can go anywhere.

If the "Model 2" is only 1-2 years away, I think it is very unlikely that Tesla will remove the steering wheel and pedal. For one, FSD would have to get much better than it is now. Even if we assume that FSD will be good enough by then, Tesla would probably still want to keep a steering wheel and pedals as a back-up just in case or to give the driver the option of manual driving when they feel like it. Although considering how stubborn Elon is about the yoke in the Plaid, I would not be surprised if Elon said "you should not want to drive manually anymore, manual driving is dumb, so we are removing the steering wheel and pedals, take it or leave."

Elon saying they will "roll the dice with FSD" seems very cavalier to me. It seems to contradict his earlier statements about making sure FSD is safer than humans before getting regulator approval to remove driver supervision. Or maybe Elon, in his typical optimism, is just assuming that FSD will be safe enough by the time the "Model 2" rolls out. Frankly, this seems like Elon's typical getting ahead of himself.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Don't take anything he said seriously.
The end of the quarter is coming and he has a sales push of and via FSD.
It doesn't matter that it's an employee meeting, he knows full well that stuff he says will leak out.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Tesla Autonomy Day Video & Dozens Of Quotes - CleanTechnica

Below the video, we'll be liveblogging highlights from the event. Enjoy, and let us know anything that catches your eye!

cleantechnica.com

“At some point, you won’t need steering wheels or pedals and we’ll just delete those. As these things become less and less important, we’ll just delete parts. Probably 2 years from now, we’ll make a car that has no steering wheels or pedals. If we need to accelerate that timing, we can always just delete parts, easy. Probably, I’d say long term, 3 years, robotaxis with deleted parts, maybe it ends up being $25,000 or less.”

2019 called - it wants its pump back.

 

[MrSlippery]

Of course it will have a steering wheel and pedals.
Unless the plan is to release it in 5+ years from now of course.

 

[daniel]

Shouldn't the placeholder name be Model 4?

It will have steering wheel and pedals because Tesla is so far away from FSD that the first Tesla without driver controls will be the Model 27.

 

[JulienW]

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

 

[aronth5]

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

You may not want to hear it but a FSD subscription on top of the $25k will be needed. How else can Tesla do this and still make money?

 

[johnm]

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

Most cars already require an insurance subscription to operate legally.

An interesting poll question would be if people really expect FSD to remain an expensive package. I guess I expect it to be eventually included as a base feature and then eventually be required by law.

 

[diplomat33]

I think $25k will just be the price of the base model with no options.

 

[JulienW]

I think $25k will just be the price of the base model with no options.

...and if it doesn't have a steering wheel (I know, pipe dream) how would you drive it?

 

[ThomasD]

How many Bolts are operating without steering wheels 3 years after this announcement

AMERICA​

GM Says Car With No Steering Wheel Or Pedals Ready For Streets In 2019​

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January 12, 20185:19 PM ET

MERRIT KENNEDY
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The Cruise AV is designed to operate on its own, with no driver, steering wheel, pedals or other manual controls.
General Motors
General Motors says it is ready to mass-produce a self-driving car that has no steering wheel, pedals or any other manual controls.
The car company said Friday that it has filed a petition with the Department of Transportation for the fourth-generation Cruise AV to hit the streets in 2019.
GM maintains that the car "will comply with federal safety laws;" the petition is asking for a waiver for laws that it cannot meet "because they are human-driver-based-requirements."

TECHNOLOGY​

New Wave Of Electric 2-Wheelers Hits U.S. City Streets​

For example: "A car without a steering wheel can't have a steering wheel airbag," as GM President Dan Ammann told The Verge.
With no steering wheel or pedals, the car's dashboard appears jarringly symmetrical in model photos released by the company. The vehicle maintains the conventional design of two rows of forward-facing seats.
Some critics, such as Jalopnik's Jason Torchinsky, have suggested GM should have been more experimental: "There's just no reason to keep these rigid interior design rules when you're not required (or able) to drive! ... There should at least be an option to swivel the front seats around, or allow the seats to all face inwardly."
Article continues after sponsor message

ALL TECH CONSIDERED​

5 Trends At The LA Auto Show That May Change How We Move​

It'll be possible for humans to stop the car – GM says customers having an emergency "may end the ride by making a stop request, and the vehicle will pull to the side of the road at the next available safe place."
The cars are undergoing testing on the roads of San Francisco and the Phoenix suburbs. GM says San Francisco provides rigorous challenges to the vehicles – for example, in the Northern California city it faces more than 7 times more emergency vehicles than in Phoenix.
As NPR's Sonari Glinton reported this week, along with Tesla, many other car companies are rolling out new electric and driverless models:

 

[Daniel in SD]

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

I think it will be a per mile subscription service. Any car becomes a brick if you can’t afford to put gas in it.
Tesla will almost certainly be liable for collisions caused by the system so it makes sense to charge per mile.

 

[daniel]

Don't understand. How does a $25,000 car include the $10,000 FSD option as standard equipment? Please don't say Tesla will require a subscription since most people in this price range can't afford a monthly payment. Many live paycheck to paycheck and getting laid off means no extra money and then their car becomes a brick that they need to find a new job?????

What this shows is that Elon Musk's mouth is not connected to his brain.

Either that, or FSD will become an included standard item. All the people who paid $10K get a free lollipop in compensation.

I think $25k will just be the price of the base model with no options.

...and if it doesn't have a steering wheel (I know, pipe dream) how would you drive it?

Base trim line: No steering wheel. $25K
Options packages: One package required:
Package 1: FSD. Base price + $10K
Package 2: Steering wheel. Base price + $5K

Package 2 available: 2023.
Package 1 available: 2043. Maybe. (Price subject to inflation adjustment.)

 

[diplomat33]

...and if it doesn't have a steering wheel (I know, pipe dream) how would you drive it?

You wouldn't be able to drive it. It would only work in autonomous mode with FSD. You would enter a destination and FSD would take you there.

 

[J1mbo]

Of course it will have a method of steering when not using FSD. Might be a joystick. Xbox controller. Yoke. On-screen control. Obscure voice commands.

Just not a wheel & pedals (maybe).

Gotta be able to move the car around inside a workshop when it's being repaired, or around a shipping compound, on and off a transporter, etc, etc.

 

[TIppy]

$25,000 that's also fully autonomous. Not that can also be fully autonomous. If you have to add a $10,000 FSD option, that would be a $35,000 fully autonomous car.

 

[diplomat33]

I think it is possible that the "Model 2" will have a yoke. For one, Elon seems to like the yoke and has put it on the newest vehicles (Plaid, Cybertruck, Roadster). Also, the yoke would seem like a good compromise. It still provides the driver with a steering wheel if they want to drive but it is also more minimalist, provides more view of the instrument cluster and can kind of feel like "no steering wheel" when in FSD mode.

 

[SlimJim]

What this shows is that Elon Musk's mouth is not connected to his brain.

Either that, or FSD will become an included standard item. All the people who paid $10K get a free lollipop in compensation.





Base trim line: No steering wheel. $25K
Options packages: One package required:
Package 1: FSD. Base price + $10K
Package 2: Steering wheel. Base price + $5K

Package 2 available: 2023.
Package 1 available: 2043. Maybe. (Price subject to inflation adjustment.)

Sooner if Tesla installs more cameras and faster computers. 2030 for pkg 1.

 

[daniel]

You wouldn't be able to drive it. It would only work in autonomous mode with FSD. You would enter a destination and FSD would take you there.

All for $25K?

When Musk said that the $25K self-driving car would not have a steering wheel, any rational person would be justified in assuming from the context that he means it would have no driving controls. If the car has a "yoke" or a joystick instead of a wheel, Musk's statement would not be a lie literally, but it would most definitely be a lie in intent. A yoke is really a kind of steering wheel.

NO!!!

When he says he's going to sell a car without a steering wheel for $25K he is effectively and by any rational interpretation promising a car that includes FSD at that price. The power windows and the voice-activated bluetooth and the sound system can all be optional extras that you have to pay for on top of the base price. It may have the cheapest possible vinyl seat covers. But it's got to include FSD in the base price if it has no steering wheel.

Of course it's really all moot if they can't actually get to full autonomy. And he's already broken multiple FSD-related promises. Nobody should be surprised if the "Model 2" turns out to cost $35, have 100 miles of range, and be the econobox of EVs. Without FSD.

Or is he really hinting that in 2 or 3 years FSD will come free, as @johnm suggested above, and all those people who paid $10K are just suckers. "I told you you should buy FSD in advance because the price will go up. But guess what, suckers, it's free now."

 

[SlimJim]

All for $25K?

When Musk said that the $25K self-driving car would not have a steering wheel, any rational person would be justified in assuming from the context that he means it would have no driving controls. If the car has a "yoke" or a joystick instead of a wheel, Musk's statement would not be a lie literally, but it would most definitely be a lie in intent. A yoke is really a kind of steering wheel.

NO!!!

When he says he's going to sell a car without a steering wheel for $25K he is effectively and by any rational interpretation promising a car that includes FSD at that price. The power windows and the voice-activated bluetooth and the sound system can all be optional extras that you have to pay for on top of the base price. It may have the cheapest possible vinyl seat covers. But it's got to include FSD in the base price if it has no steering wheel.

Of course it's really all moot if they can't actually get to full autonomy. And he's already broken multiple FSD-related promises. Nobody should be surprised if the "Model 2" turns out to cost $35, have 100 miles of range, and be the econobox of EVs. Without FSD.

Or is he really hinting that in 2 or 3 years FSD will come free, as @johnm suggested above, and all those people who paid $10K are just suckers. "I told you you should buy FSD in advance because the price will go up. But guess what, suckers, it's free now."

I would be already upset if i purchased fsd for $5000 or more.