I feel like a person who purchases a $130,000 SUV isn't hauling large things that wouldn't fit. They would have it delivered or use their other vehicle (1/2 ton pickup, tractor trailer, helicopter). [emoji12]
I've seen this bandied about quite a few times, and while that's likely true in some (mostly stereotypical) cases, I've found most Tesla owners that I've come across to be down-to-earth, practical people. People who worked hard to get what they've gotten and maintain that "I can do it myself attitude". People who put kids, dogs, groceries and hauls in their cars. People who USE the car.
Absolutely. Though it pains me to admit, I fear that I'll be pulling stale cheerios out of the cracks and crevices of this amazing bird for years to come Oh how I wish the second (and third!) row were more versatile... Didn't stop me from confirming, but I would've gone with the seven instead of six if I could move things around.
Totally agree with AnOutsider. Furthermore, Europeans tend to have one car to perform all tasks, whether it's to drive to work, go to Ikea, take kids to school, go skiing, etc. 2nd row folding seats will be an even bigger issue for them.
I did not know that. That does beg the question(s): Do Europeans buy only large SUVs to handle their needs? If not, how do they handle moving large items when they do not own large SUVs?
I think I'm a pretty typical Norwegian. I drive a Hyundai Elantra Touring with a ~2640 lb tow hitch. The car is pretty roomy by itself if you fold down the seats (about as much room as a Model S), but if that's not enough, you get pretty far with towing 2640 lb. Of course, it's not for towing a boat or anything.
I think you are confusing large items with items that are not compact like suitcases. Sure if I have to haul a desk or a lot of lumber I would get a trailer or a pickup and it would be a planned event. But going to an antique store and seeing a lamp you want to buy, maybe a piece of trim or plastic pipe you need to finish a project, your skis or bikes for two. These are just a sample of the non suitcase type of objects that find a home in our current SUV more than hauling people. So I compromised with the 6 seat option to accommodate at least some of these use cases but it's far from ideal. The 7 seat version would never find a home in my garage.
Some sedans (like the Model-S) are great vehicles for transporting large items. With the 2nd row seats folded down, you can carry large screen TVs, Ikea furniture, bikes, skis, etc. In general, Europeans don't buy large SUVs because they're too big for their very old infrastructure. Most European cities and roads were designed/built before the automobile was invented.
Generally speaking wagons, or "MPVs" are far more common for "busy" families looking for practical transport. SUVs are pretty common here too, though I would argue it's more status driven than load hauling. So Range Rover, Q7, etc. In terms of 5 seater pickups everything here is smaller than an F150. Biggest is say a Nissan Frontier. Whether this is due to road sizes I'm not 100% convinced. (The most historic parts of cities, quaint towns and villages have arguably the highest density of SUV's in fact in the UK a long running joke is to call them "Chelsea Tractors" ). I think it's probably more cultural differences. We have accepted hatchbacks for years, where the US has been far more sedan focused, and wagons here aren't necessarily perceived as wood clad acceptance of a life until retirement. (The German wagons esp. Audi RS wagon only limited editions broke that mold). There are some fascinating theories on how this split developed (one is the 73 oil crisis where the likes of the AMC Gremlin, Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega, effectively saw the genre vilified) My vague view is manufacturers saw the negative market perception of hatchbacks and wagons in the US and used the SUV as the "answer" to the marketing problem. I know lots of US TMC owners rave about the practicality of the Model S, but TBH it's not a million miles away from a Euro spec Mondeo hatchback of 15 years ago. I'm struggling to think of any other car from a premium brand (in the EU at least) that has 4 passenger doors and a hatchback. So maybe this is the start of an awakening (And certainly US sales of hatchbacks from all manufacturer are increasing) Hopefully a Model S wagon will be next, and can compete here in Europe with the likes of the BMW M5 Touring, or E Class AMG Wagon. I personally would buy one in a heartbeat (the X not so much)
So Audi doesn't sell the A7, Mercedes the CLA and CLS Coupe, and BMW the 5 series GT or the new 4 series? If that's true then I really do need to move to Europe. Especially if Tesla makes an S wagon. If you can't tell, I love wagons. Always have. I hate that everyone is killing off their wagons, replacing them with jacked up versions calling them SUV's, and now with sedans, er "hatchbacked" 4 door coupes. I had always wanted an S4 or RS4 Avant and just when I was in a position to buy one they killed it here in the US. Still enjoying my 11 year old Subaru Legacy turbo wagon.
I noted with curiosity this paragraph in The Wirecutter's review of the Honda Odyssey, about its non-folding (yet removable) 2nd row seats: The Best Minivan I don't know if I agree with them, but it is interesting, after all the sound and fury around the non-folding second-row seats, to note that there are other cars in the Minivan/CUV class that don't have folding second row seats. These vehicles have other differences of course, with completely flat 3rd rows and no rear engine hump, so it's not a direct comparison, but it is something.
The issue here is not whether there are inferior, bad, worse SUVs. The expectation of second row foldable seats were clearly presented and kept rising as Tesla follow up messages essentially said that the final product would be much better than what you saw in the prototype. Tesla should have communicated with follow up messages that you should not expect second row foldable seats as shown in the prototype. It was very distressing to learn from rumors. Once I got confirmation from Tesla about the deletion of this feature, I was still disappointed but no longer in distress.
Exactly. There is still the option to remove those seats. I think most people don't suddenly need to remove those seats, but rather plan a trip to Home Depot or IKEA and can plan ahead. Or they have some hobby like cycling and they can just have one seat removed most of the time and easily store their bike. Edmunds has a lot of examples how someone might use the car. Sometimes just folding a bit is good enough. 2011 Honda Odyssey Long Term Road Test - Cargo Space How many of those things would not fit in a Model X? Especially on a 7 seater. Meanwhile competitors in the large luxury SUV class could probably handle almost all of that.
This has been my experience as well. Heck - I have that attitude about my Roadster. I can pretty reliably get 6 bags of groceries in the Roadster, and probably 8 if some of them are light. Of course, then the passenger isn't an option anymore Or 4 bags of groceries and 1 box of chicken greens Cars are meant to be used.
Count me as another person who has held a Model X reservation for 3 years and has not yet configured .. waiting for folding second row seats. Without them, the vehicle just doesn't work for our needs.
The article's section about the Odyssey 2nd row is poorly written. I have a current generation Odyssey and its 2nd row definitely folds flat (in comparison to the Model X 2nd row which doesn't fold flat or otherwise).
I fully understand your perspective. I made a second reservation just in case once I submitted my first order they would make that glorious announcement, but unable to change existing orders. Even today I would forfeit the original order deposit and wait the extra time if folding 2nd row seats were to be available. However, despite no explanation coming from TM, I believe the lack of folding seats is due to the FWDs, because they eliminate the ability to have the seatbelt attachment to the b-pillar like most other SUVs, and having the seatbelt attached to the seat than can fold might sacrifice the 5-star Safety Rating...however no evidence to support that theory, but it does make sense. Therefore, you may be waiting for the Model X 2.0 that does not have FWDs and allows for folding seats....Heck, that would be my preferred design anyway.
I think that is the case. With a normal car manufacturer, you could expect to see that in 7-8 years, given the normal product development cycle in the industry. With Tesla, and the X in specific, I think you're going to see the X, largely as is, sold for up to a decade or longer. Tesla design is going to be significantly consumed for many years with Model 3, Model Y, Roadster, a possible Truck. Given how far they pushed the envelope in the Model X design, it's already gotten the design work it's going to get, and a Model X 2.0 isn't going to arrive until the current base design is so obviously out of date that it just doesn't sell anymore.