Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[andrewket]

I'm really, really, really hoping that the fold-down seats also have heating/cooling/ventilation. If it does, it will make my 2nd row decision a lot easier.

Same. Although I think we could live with just seat warming if it gave us folding seats. As long as you can still order heating and cooling front row seats.

Edit: it appears cooling isn't available in the second or third rows anyway even with the upgraded seats.

 

[douhgboy]

Hmm, so I have here a slight variation on previous suggestions that is my 'bet' for the reveal on 29th. To me it is inconceivable that the x could reach production without the ability to create a flat load floor. It was a feature made much of at the prototype reveal; and confirmed by email last June (above). Elon's promise was that a production Tesla vehicle will always be better than the prototype. If it looses the ability to create a flat load floor, it will be poorer than both the prototype and pretty much every vehicle that claims 'utility' in its name.
We also know that these second row seats have been an engineering challenge 'greater than the falcon wing doors' to paraphrase Elon. That the result of that effort should be fixed seats that simply move back and forward is also inconceivable.

The EV architecture gives Tesla much more freedom to design the internal arrangements... in this case, the key thing is that there is no transmission tunnel interrupting the floor. The X is also a good bit higher than the S, so the front seats will be higher, and there will be more space underneath them. So ... the front seats are I think cantilevered, with maybe 2/3 of their depth being free of any obstructions / supports underneath. This enables the rear seat to submarine underneath, as has been suggested by others. The centre console will also have space underneath it in the same fashion. The adjustable thigh supports that have been noted by others (retracting as the seat submarines) result in smaller seat pad volume, making it easier to get the seat pad underneath the front seat. The slot down the front of the second row support pedestal also suggests this is what will happen.

I think it will work something like the sketch below. After the second row submarines, the pedestals will be left protruding from the floor, behind the second row. The third row then folds FORWARD, and will be supported at the head end by the pedestals. Note that the head restraints on the third row either remove completely or fold forward. I think that when they do, it will expose the mechanical connection that will engage with the pedestals.

I'm putting £1 on this being the solution.

 

[vandacca]

Same. Although I think we could live with just seat warming if it gave us folding seats. As long as you can still order heating and cooling front row seats.

Edit: it appears cooling isn't available in the second or third rows anyway even with the upgraded seats.

Thanks andrewket for pointing out that the 2nd/3rd row doesn't appear to have cooling/ventilation. I think I must have unintentionally made the assumption that all 3 rows had cooling/ventilation along the way and it just stuck in my head as fact. Looking back at the Design Studio pictures, it clearly doesn't say that, but there is some ambiguity. I think the reason why I made this assumption was because the 2nd and 3rd row have perforated seats, just like the first row.

If there is absolutely no 2nd/3rd row option to have cooling/ventilation with the Signature seats, then that'll make my decision a lot easier.

 

[gizmoboy]

Hmm, so I have here a slight variation on previous suggestions that is my 'bet' for the reveal on 29th. To me it is inconceivable that the x could reach production without the ability to create a flat load floor. It was a feature made much of at the prototype reveal; and confirmed by email last June (above). Elon's promise was that a production Tesla vehicle will always be better than the prototype. If it looses the ability to create a flat load floor, it will be poorer than both the prototype and pretty much every vehicle that claims 'utility' in its name.
We also know that these second row seats have been an engineering challenge 'greater than the falcon wing doors' to paraphrase Elon. That the result of that effort should be fixed seats that simply move back and forward is also inconceivable.

The EV architecture gives Tesla much more freedom to design the internal arrangements... in this case, the key thing is that there is no transmission tunnel interrupting the floor. The X is also a good bit higher than the S, so the front seats will be higher, and there will be more space underneath them. So ... the front seats are I think cantilevered, with maybe 2/3 of their depth being free of any obstructions / supports underneath. This enables the rear seat to submarine underneath, as has been suggested by others. The centre console will also have space underneath it in the same fashion. The adjustable thigh supports that have been noted by others (retracting as the seat submarines) result in smaller seat pad volume, making it easier to get the seat pad underneath the front seat. The slot down the front of the second row support pedestal also suggests this is what will happen.

I think it will work something like the sketch below. After the second row submarines, the pedestals will be left protruding from the floor, behind the second row. The third row then folds FORWARD, and will be supported at the head end by the pedestals. Note that the head restraints on the third row either remove completely or fold forward. I think that when they do, it will expose the mechanical connection that will engage with the pedestals.

I'm putting £1 on this being the solution.
View attachment 93471

That does all hang together, and would be pretty slick. I'm not convinced there's enough clearance under the front seats, but if it turns out to be the case, I can see how that would be pretty impressive.

 

[goneskiian]

Hmm, so I have here a slight variation on previous suggestions that is my 'bet' for the reveal on 29th. To me it is inconceivable that the x could reach production without the ability to create a flat load floor. It was a feature made much of at the prototype reveal; and confirmed by email last June (above). Elon's promise was that a production Tesla vehicle will always be better than the prototype. If it looses the ability to create a flat load floor, it will be poorer than both the prototype and pretty much every vehicle that claims 'utility' in its name.
We also know that these second row seats have been an engineering challenge 'greater than the falcon wing doors' to paraphrase Elon. That the result of that effort should be fixed seats that simply move back and forward is also inconceivable.

The EV architecture gives Tesla much more freedom to design the internal arrangements... in this case, the key thing is that there is no transmission tunnel interrupting the floor. The X is also a good bit higher than the S, so the front seats will be higher, and there will be more space underneath them. So ... the front seats are I think cantilevered, with maybe 2/3 of their depth being free of any obstructions / supports underneath. This enables the rear seat to submarine underneath, as has been suggested by others. The centre console will also have space underneath it in the same fashion. The adjustable thigh supports that have been noted by others (retracting as the seat submarines) result in smaller seat pad volume, making it easier to get the seat pad underneath the front seat. The slot down the front of the second row support pedestal also suggests this is what will happen.

I think it will work something like the sketch below. After the second row submarines, the pedestals will be left protruding from the floor, behind the second row. The third row then folds FORWARD, and will be supported at the head end by the pedestals. Note that the head restraints on the third row either remove completely or fold forward. I think that when they do, it will expose the mechanical connection that will engage with the pedestals.

I'm putting £1 on this being the solution.
View attachment 93471

Did you bother reading this whole thread? This has been proposed by quite a few times. The main argument against it (and in my mind at least, the reason it's a non starter and will NOT happen) is the fact that in order to fold the 3rd row the 2nd row will also be completelpy unusable.

 

[MrBoylan]

I would expect Model X to get folding second row at some point. The bigger question is, will it appear too soon for comfort for the Signature buyers who may now be getting a non-folding version?

Or will Signature deposit holders be assured that they can swap their seats out at some point in the future for folding seats at no additional cost?

As a regular X reservation holder, I'd prefer a fold flat option for the second row (as shown in the prototypes), but I'd probably still get the car even if the second row does not fold flat. I have a Toyota Highlander Hybrid now and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've needed to fold the second and third rows flat. But I do use the third row of seats often.

-CB

 

[douhgboy]

Did you bother reading this whole thread? This has been proposed by quite a few times. The main argument against it (and in my mind at least, the reason it's a non starter and will NOT happen) is the fact that in order to fold the 3rd row the 2nd row will also be completelpy unusable.

Well, actually I did read the whole thread, and I can't see any suggestion that matches this completely. What I've proposed here that is different to the other suggestions is that the third row rests on the pedestal that is exposed by the submarined second row. It's the only arrangement I can imagine that results in a flat floor and gets the second row out of the way without folding them.
Your politely-made point that the third row cannot be folded independently of the second is valid. But of all the potential compromises that are in the mix, to my mind that is a lesser one. However, this could be overcome by the possibility that the third row is removable as well as foldable; or that it can fold in more than one manner / direction. As well as folding forward, it could fold backward too... mechanically complex, but possible.

I do think that by insisting on 'sculptural beauty' and rigidity in the second row, the engineering challenge in creating a flat floor must have been significant.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Well, actually I did read the whole thread, and I can't see any suggestion that matches this completely. What I've proposed here that is different to the other suggestions is that the third row rests on the pedestal that is exposed by the submarined second row. It's the only arrangement I can imagine that results in a flat floor and gets the second row out of the way without folding them.
Your politely-made point that the third row cannot be folded independently of the second is valid. But of all the potential compromises that are in the mix, to my mind that is a lesser one. However, this could be overcome by the possibility that the third row is removable as well as foldable; or that it can fold in more than one manner / direction. As well as folding forward, it could fold backward too... mechanically complex, but possible.

I do think that by insisting on 'sculptural beauty' and rigidity in the second row, the engineering challenge in creating a flat floor must have been significant.

Signature reservation holders have been told that the 2nd row seats do not fold, rotate or otherwise form a flat floor. The pictured seats move back and forth and might tilt forward. That's it.

 

[hpham007]

Signature reservation holders have been told that the 2nd row seats do not fold, rotate or otherwise form a flat floor. The pictured seats move back and forth and might tilt forward. That's it.

I find this hard to believe. I can't think of one SUV where the seats do not fold down. They probably exist but I can't think of one. Heck, plenty of sedan's seats fold flat to access the trunk. What would be the purpose of the X? It would have no more utility than a sedan and may have less.

 

[smac]

What would be the purpose of the X?

I'm hopeful the main product line will have folding rear seats, otherwise it does become a serious question.

And please not some of these crazy origami ideas we've seen speculating how these fixed back non-hinged sig seats could be made to give a flat load area, just plain simple folding seats as shown on the early prototype. K.I.S.S principle, and out in a reasonable time frame.

 

[douhgboy]

Signature reservation holders have been told that the 2nd row seats do not fold, rotate or otherwise form a flat floor. The pictured seats move back and forth and might tilt forward. That's it.

I think they've been told that ' they don't fold flat', which leaves quite a bit of room for interpretation (do they rotate, submarine, slide, or tilt to create a flat floor?) , and a good deal of misinformation (The quoted tesla employee may be no more enlightended than guessers here).

If it is true that 'more engineering effort has been put into these seats than the falcon wing doors' (to paraphrase Elon) to create these 'awesome' pieces of 'sculptural beauty' that can't even get out of the way to create a decent loadspace?? If so, then the design priorities are very, very wrong.

 

[madodel]

Or will Signature deposit holders be assured that they can swap their seats out at some point in the future for folding seats at no additional cost?

As a regular X reservation holder, I'd prefer a fold flat option for the second row (as shown in the prototypes), but I'd probably still get the car even if the second row does not fold flat. I have a Toyota Highlander Hybrid now and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've needed to fold the second and third rows flat. But I do use the third row of seats often.

-CB

I have a Highlander Hybrid and I have the opposite experience. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used the 3rd row which are always folded down, and frequently fold down one or both sides of the second row for storage. I honestly don't care how comfortable or lovely the second row seats are as I will never sit in them. My decision rests on how much storage there will be with the 3rd row flat and the second row as far out of the way as possible. If there is less room than in a Model S, then I will have to decide which is more usable. Or wait until there is usable production version of the Model X.

Mark

MX Signature # 1096

 

[sigurdi]

I think Elon also called the seats piece of art.
Maybe because they are like other art, Nice to look at, but not ustable for anything else. ;-)
Elon love technical solutions, and sine the X will be a better SUV than Model S is a sedan I guess it is something with them not viewable in the pictures.
3.row, need to be able to be folden down or away independently of second row.

 

[smac]

I have a Highlander Hybrid and I have the opposite experience. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used the 3rd row which are always folded down, and frequently fold down one or both sides of the second row for storage.

Ditto with Wife's Q7.


Our MPV is a different story, but the MX is a hard car to pigeon hole.

 

[MrBoylan]

I have a Highlander Hybrid and I have the opposite experience. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used the 3rd row which are always folded down, and frequently fold down one or both sides of the second row for storage.

I move people. You move stuff. To each his own. I get it. Ideally, it would be nice if we both get what we want.

 

[akordz]

I'm now of the mindset that the 2nd row seats, as shown, don't fold flat. However, I still think like many others, that another 2nd row seat will come out. I'm guessing this will either be in time for the sigs, or within the next few months.

The reason I say this is because over the weekend I got talking to a guy who insists Tesla is going to be making their seats in-house. He says the current the current seat contracts have been cancelled and a section of the factory is being re-done, as we speak, to allow manufacturing of the seats. Supposedly construction is done by 9/14. The timing is CRAZY, I know. Now, PLEASE don't roast me like EDS or throwawayaccount. I'm not vouching for the truthiness (i'm watching colbert tonight!) of this information. Just that this person seemed very earnest and sincere and I have no reason to doubt him.

 

[vandacca]

I'm now of the mindset that the 2nd row seats, as shown, don't fold flat. However, I still think like many others, that another 2nd row seat will come out. I'm guessing this will either be in time for the sigs, or within the next few months.

The reason I say this is because over the weekend I got talking to a guy who insists Tesla is going to be making their seats in-house. He says the current the current seat contracts have been cancelled and a section of the factory is being re-done, as we speak, to allow manufacturing of the seats. Supposedly construction is done by 9/14. The timing is CRAZY, I know. Now, PLEASE don't roast me like EDS or throwawayaccount. I'm not vouching for the truthiness (i'm watching colbert tonight!) of this information. Just that this person seemed very earnest and sincere and I have no reason to doubt him.

This doesn't sound too crazy to me. It was my understanding that Tesla has done this before with the Model-S seats when they became unhappy with the manufacturer (can't remember the name) and the time it took to resolve issues. From your statement, it is unclear to me whether Tesla will build the seats themselves or they have created a space for the manufacturer to work in. Based on Tesla's past, I'd say that either option is equally possible.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The reason I say this is because over the weekend I got talking to a guy who insists Tesla is going to be making their seats in-house. He says the current the current seat contracts have been cancelled and a section of the factory is being re-done, as we speak, to allow manufacturing of the seats. Supposedly construction is done by 9/14. The timing is CRAZY, I know.

If it's seriously reached this point only 3 weeks before delivery, someone at Tesla has screwed up very badly. I really hope this isn't the case.

Now, PLEASE don't roast me like EDS or throwawayaccount. I'm not vouching for the truthiness (i'm watching colbert tonight!) of this information. Just that this person seemed very earnest and sincere and I have no reason to doubt him.

Don't expect any mercy here (TMC can get pretty rowdy).

 

[NigelM]

I think Elon also called the seats piece of art.
Maybe because they are like other art, Nice to look at, but not ustable for anything else. ;-)

That's the point. It seems the vast majority of folks I know want a 'utility' vehicle as in SUV or CUV or XUV....If I wanted a piece of art to look at then I'd hang it on my wall where I can look at it not put it in the next row of seats back where I rarely see it.

 

[AnOutsider]

If it's seriously reached this point only 3 weeks before delivery, someone at Tesla has screwed up very badly. I really hope this isn't the case.

Looking back to the center console fiasco, I can see how it could have spiraled out of control with the seats. Heck, they even had problems delivering the Next Gen seats for the S.