Will there be a Price Increase 1/1/14?

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Typical 3%-5% year over year should be expected.

Only on a fully commoditized/commercialized product. Tesla's products, or any new product, should benefit substantially from increased production by amortizing capital costs and reducing materials/production costs.

Look at the Prius. in 2013 dollars, the first generation started at $26,314 for a compact, the second gen was substantially larger, faster, more efficient, and started at $25,040, and the 2010 started at $24,370, with better everything than the 2nd gen.

Every single iteration has been larger, faster, more reliable, and more efficient, for less in 2013 dollars. Tesla will probably see similar cost reductions and increases in performance. If they don't pass those on to the consumer, but other manufacturers do, I think that will hinder their prospects as a major automobile manufacturer.

When the Model S debuted, I was able to get a base 40kWh version for $50k+. While it didn't have as much range and it wasn't as fast as a 60 or 85, it was much more attractive than most other EVs, eg the Leaf, i-Miev, etc..., all of which were ~$20k+.

Now, the i has dropped to ~$13k, and the least expensive S I can get is $61k. Is the S a better car in every way? Sure. But while it was ~$30k better, I don't think it's ~$50k better. By the time the E rolls around, Tesla may not have the same value they currently do compared to other EVs, and I doubt they'll be able to grow as much as they could have.

 

[jerry33]

Look at the Prius. in 2013 dollars, the first generation started at $26,314 for a compact, the second gen was substantially larger, faster, more efficient, and started at $25,040, and the 2010 started at $24,370, with better everything than the 2nd gen.

Well, the 2010 certainly included a lot of feeping creaturism, but better (other than that the motors were redesigned)? They ruined the dash and front seat area. The display is not as informative as in the 2G. They barely improved the mpg. The best interior quality was in the first generation. They also had to recall in 2010 because the poor brake transition feel made new buyers believe the car was unsafe.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

While valid, I think that's somewhat subjective. I like my gen 2 because it's the easiest to convert to a plug-in, but it doesn't touch my cousin's gen 3 overall.

Objectively, the current gen is the safest, fastest, largest, most efficient, and least expensive Prius.

The difference in efficiency on the EPA tests isn't that much, but IME it's ~10-20% real world due to cooled EGR for some lead footed drivers, like my wife.

 

[jerry33]

While valid, I think that's somewhat subjective. I like my gen 2 because it's the easiest to convert to a plug-in, but it doesn't touch my cousin's gen 3 overall.

Objectively, the current gen is the safest, fastest, largest, most efficient, and least expensive Prius.

The difference in efficiency on the EPA tests isn't that much, but IME it's ~10-20% real world due to cooled EGR for some lead footed drivers, like my wife.

Yes, it's subjective, but I haven't seen anyone post long term numbers that are better than my 2004.

2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
2012 -- 69.2 mpg 16,212 miles

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

I've never seen anyone drive efficiently and keep long-term records like you have for a gen-ii prius, or any car for that matter. I imagine that if you got a gen-iii, you would post better long term numbers, unless you have a very interesting commute where a gen-ii gets better mileage than a gen-iii for some reason.

 

[yobigd20]

I thought prius' only got 40mpg. How is yours increasing in mpg every year?

 

[jerry33]

I thought prius' only got 40mpg.

If you only get 40 mpg in a Prius:

A. You live where it's very cold and haven't done any of the things that mitigate the cold weather mpg loss.

B. You do only very short trips. (In which case you need the PiP).

C. You don't have LRR tires on.

D. You aren't keeping the tires aired up.

E. The alignment isn't set correctly. (The Prius needs to spot-on, not just within-specs)

Even in the first generation (2001-2003) It's easy to get over 50 mpg. I've done that many times on Denise's Prius (before she murdered it)

How is yours increasing in mpg every year?

The first year is mostly new car break in.

The second and third years were learning about how to drive it. Remember, not much was known about how to drive a Prius in 2004. Many things were tried and discarded.

Tires got better over the years. The last set was Nokian eNTYRE. Very low rolling resistance.

Additional instrumentation (Scangauge) was added to supplement the onboard instrumentation.

I have an Effective Driving PDF.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never seen anyone drive efficiently and keep long-term records like you have for a gen-ii prius, or any car for that matter.

LOL. Well, when I first got the 2004, I was annoyed at all the folks who complained they couldn't get the mpg they thought they should. So I started keeping records to have some data to back what I said.

I imagine that if you got a gen-iii, you would post better long term numbers, unless you have a very interesting commute where a gen-ii gets better mileage than a gen-iii for some reason.

The g3 is supposed to get better mpg, but they've dumbed down the interface (which was some trick because it was already pretty dumb) and so I suspect it's harder to get the best efficiency out of it. I think a lot of the improvement in mpg comes from the additional resistance in the accelerator pedal.

A lot of us were expect a revolutionary car like the 2004 was compared to the 2001, but what Toyota shipped was a dumbed down bigger car with only incremental changes. They even messed up the shifter. It was nice and out of the way in the 2g, in the 3g it's right where it would be if there was a transmission. This takes up a lot of usable space.