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will yoke steering be non-linear?

If the steering is linear and using a normal street car ratio, it could be really awkward to make u-turns or parallel park with a yoke instead of a wheel. So I'm wondering if Tesla will make the yoke steering nonlinear, with an increasingly higher ratio as the yoke is deflected farther, so the yoke never turns all the way over even at max steering lock.

Could the steering ratio also be speed sensitive? Steer-by-wire and software defined?
 
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While the concept of the yoke is cool IMO, there's no practical way of doing it right.

If they used a normal street car ratio, maneuvering on anything other than the freeway would be a nightmare.
If they used a Formula 1 ratio (i.e. 90 degrees on each side), driving above 50 km/h would be dangerous.
If they used a non-linear ratio, you would have no idea where the car will turn, which would make for a terrible driving experience.

There's a reason why a million concept cars have had the yoke in the initial design, but it never made it to production.
 

whitex

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Sep 30, 2015
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Seattle area, WA
I'm thinking Elon's going for the cool factor of the yoke because he truly believes it won't be needed, that FSD will drive you wherever you want. He sees a steering wheel as a useless appendage forced on him the the government regulations, so he wanted it to at least look cool. Come on, he truly believed we'd have some FSD by end of 2016, then that he will demo coast to coast FSD by end of 2017, that he will have a robo-taxi fleet operational by end of 2020 (he still believed in in October of 2020), and now he probably believes FSD will be done by the time the first person gets the yoke. Welcome to Elon's world.
 
I'm thinking Elon's going for the cool factor of the yoke because he truly believes it won't be needed, that FSD will drive you wherever you want. He sees a steering wheel as a useless appendage forced on him the the government regulations, so he wanted it to at least look cool. Come on, he truly believed we'd have some FSD by end of 2016, then that he will demo coast to coast FSD by end of 2017, that he will have a robo-taxi fleet operational by end of 2020 (he still believed in in October of 2020), and now he probably believes FSD will be done by the time the first person gets the yoke. Welcome to Elon's world.
I like Elon's world. I can live there.
 
If the steering is linear and using a normal street car ratio, it could be really awkward to make u-turns or parallel park with a yoke instead of a wheel. So I'm wondering if Tesla will make the yoke steering nonlinear, with an increasingly higher ratio as the yoke is deflected farther, so the yoke never turns all the way over even at max steering lock.

Could the steering ratio also be speed sensitive? Steer-by-wire and software defined?

Audi has a speed sensitive system called Dynamic Steering.

It doesn't need to be steer-by-wire at all, the way Audi did it is through a mechanical system. Probably more reliable.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,915
8,816
Seattle area, WA
Audi has a speed sensitive system called Dynamic Steering.

It doesn't need to be steer-by-wire at all, the way Audi did it is through a mechanical system. Probably more reliable.
First, Tesla is all about computerized control vs. mechanical (they don't even have a proper mechanical locking differential, using computer controlled braking instead).

Second, I think what you're thinking about is small changes in responsiveness, similar to Tesla's "comfort/normal/sport" mode. The maximum swings of adjustments would not be changing 2-3x as making the wheel never turn 90 degrees would require. That would mean a much higher range of ratio adjustment. By the way, having experienced my Teslas spontaneously change steering modes while driving, I would never want a similar system controlling the wheel to steering ratio and my steering ratio switch to parking while doing 80mph on a highway.
 
First, Tesla is all about computerized control vs. mechanical (they don't even have a proper mechanical locking differential, using computer controlled braking instead).

Second, I think what you're thinking about is small changes in responsiveness, similar to Tesla's "comfort/normal/sport" mode. The maximum swings of adjustments would not be changing 2-3x as making the wheel never turn 90 degrees would require. That would mean a much higher range of ratio adjustment. By the way, having experienced my Teslas spontaneously change steering modes while driving, I would never want a similar system controlling the wheel to steering ratio and my steering ratio switch to parking while doing 80mph on a highway.

Nope, the Audis have actual variable steering ratios, not just responsiveness.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,915
8,816
Seattle area, WA
I like Elon's world. I can live there.
Fun, but expensive (you have to keep buying the latest to stay up to date, many upgrades required to get to original promised goals). Living there requires a lot of patience, but I hear it can be substituted with large amounts of special coolaid. Oh, and stay away from news like this which could shatter your faith:
 
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I agree if it's nonlinear the force needed to turn the yoke will also be nonlinear. So if the yoke is near center a deflection of the yoke will require only light force and will only turn the front wheels a little bit. And if the yoke is far from center a further deflection of the yoke will take a lot of force and will move the front wheels a lot. The yoke could get quite heavy near full deflection.
 
This seems like something they could have easily implemented and tested as an option with a standard steering wheel until the masses got comfortable with the nonlinear solution allowing time for feedback and tweaks before turning it off is no longer an option.

Ah well, hope it goes smoothly.
 
This seems like something they could have easily implemented and tested as an option with a standard steering wheel until the masses got comfortable with the nonlinear solution allowing time for feedback and tweaks before turning it off is no longer an option.

Ah well, hope it goes smoothly.

Mr. Uujjj used to work for Apple, and has a bit of insight into the Apple mindset on this (which Tesla largely shares). When Apple wants to make a controversial/radical change, it gets tested to death inside the company. Lots of internal focus groups with Apple employees, but no external focus groups. Once the go-ahead is given, the decision is final and there's no going back. Initial rollout goes on the highest visibility products. It's all in on the radical change. "Burn the boats" is an Apple mantra.

If Tesla is following the Apple way, which it certainly has in the past, they've worked out a scheme for this yoke steering that works really well in their internal testing. Tesla knows yoke steering is going to be controversial. Tesla has convinced itself, internally, that their yoke steering scheme is the right way to do steering, and there's no going back.

"tested as an option until the masses get comfortable" - Not the Apple way. Not the Tesla way.
 
Audi has a speed sensitive system called Dynamic Steering.

It doesn't need to be steer-by-wire at all, the way Audi did it is through a mechanical system. Probably more reliable.
Audi's video shows that their system changes the ratio as much as 100%. That would solve for not having to turn the yoke all the way around while driving around town while also having a nice ratio on the highway. Also, I am wondering if they need to go as high as 100% ratio change? You can turn a yoke several turns if you have to, but I wonder how often it's needed.
 
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