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Will you buy FSD before the $1,000 increase on July 1st?

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On freeway driving you really only gain automatic lane changes for 7K. The rest is all city stuff.

Nope... NoA is highway and does several things for you- passing other slower cars as well as and handling interchanges and exits.


For example when driving from one particular friends house back home, it's about a 45 mile trip, and touches on a couple different highways/interstates.

First mile or two from his house to first highway I drive manually.

Then I get on the first highway and turn on NoA.

I don't have to do a thing again (other than 'be ready to take over' and keep my hands on the wheel) till it exits at the correct place 2 highways later, and I manually drive the couple miles to my house.




Does standard AP handle interchanges as well?


Nope.

Basic AP does 2 things:

TACC (radar cruise control)
Keep you in your single lane.

That's it.
 
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Nope... NoA is highway and does several things for you- passing other slower cars as well as and handling interchanges and exits.


For example when driving from one particular friends house back home, it's about a 45 mile trip, and touches on a couple different highways/interstates.

First mile or two from his house to first highway I drive manually.

Then I get on the first highway and turn on NoA.

I don't have to do a thing again (other than 'be ready to take over' and keep my hands on the wheel) till it exits at the correct place 2 highways later, and I manually drive the couple miles to my house.







Nope.

Basic AP does 2 things:

TACC (radar cruise control)
Keep you in your single lane.

That's it.
Knew I shouldn't have clicked on "show ignored content"...

You say nope to it only adding automatic lane changes... Then proceed to list two examples of automatic lane changes.... That's all passing a slow car and navigating interchanges is... Changing Lanes.... Automatically.
 
For those who have FSD, especially if you've had it awhile, has the progress in its development been more, less or the same as what you were expecting?

Having the car for 1.5 years now, the last 6 months or so have seen a much accelerated velocity of releases (improved NoA, Smart Summon, Visualizations, Stop Sign and Traffic Light beta). I can see the core building blocks coming together.

If in another 6 months they can string together more of these foundational features (Smart Park, NoA for city streets, Yield sign support, roundabouts, reading speed limit signs with cameras, etc) in releases, the perspective in this thread may change. We won’t be at FSD, but the picture could become much clearer.
 
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For example when driving from one particular friends house back home, it's about a 45 mile trip, and touches on a couple different highways/interstates.
...
I don't have to do a thing again (other than 'be ready to take over' and keep my hands on the wheel) till it exits at the correct place 2 highways later, and I manually drive the couple miles to my house.

That's my scenario too. Most of my driving is like that. People who don't have it don't know how useful that is.
.
 
For those of you that are placing a poor financial bet on Tesla getting the FSD technology to really work (it won’t), you all seem to be ignoring the other massive factor that will ruin your FSD dream ever coming true, even if by some miracle Tesla somehow gets the tech to be somewhat reliable in all weather and road conditions:

“future use of these features without supervision is dependent on...regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions.“
 
Knew I shouldn't have clicked on "show ignored content"...

You say nope to it only adding automatic lane changes... Then proceed to list two examples of automatic lane changes.... That's all passing a slow car and navigating interchanges is... Changing Lanes.... Automatically.

Yeah... no.

I mean- when it starts making turns at intersections or exiting roundabouts correctly is that also just "automatically changing lanes" and we can pretend that's also not a separate feature?

Because by your incredibly short sighted and narrow application of the term- that's all it is. So I guess FSD is feature complete since everything it's missing is just automatic lane changes, right? It just needs to do them in more places.


But doing things like moving over multiple lanes to take an appropriate exit based on destination, adjusting speeds to do so, and then merging into another new highway at appropriate speed, is a lot more than "just automatic lane change"

Ditto looking at upcoming cars to judge speeds and openings and decide, based on that info plus your settings, when it's appropriate to pass other vehicles on its own.
 
For those of you that are placing a poor financial bet on Tesla getting the FSD technology to really work (it won’t), you all seem to be ignoring the other massive factor that will ruin your FSD dream ever coming true, even if by some miracle Tesla somehow gets the tech to be somewhat reliable in all weather and road conditions:

“future use of these features without supervision is dependent on...regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions.“
You still just don't get it. Current pricing isn't really out of line with current shipping performance, and it is definitely inline with very reasonable expectations within the next year or so (given Tesla's ongoing advancement). In no small part because they're by themselves here in what they can offer, nobody else is really there. That's the modest gamble I took last year, paying the price I did moving EAP to FSD (after giving a pass on entirely vapourware FSD when I bought the vehicle), and it paid off.

What you're describing is worth several 10's of thousands of dollars per vehicle.** That's why Waymo has been strapping 6-digits worth of hardware onto vehicles to try get their limited use case to work.

** By today's standards. Hard to say exactly what price will be hung on it in the future, as it isn't clear on availability of everything else when that all comes into place. It is hard to compare $ now to $ under such a situation, these sea change advancements have a way of twisting the whole economy around them.
 
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If your argument is "don't buy it because it won't be full self driving anytime soon", you're probably right. But that's not what a lot of people are expecting out of it.

Part of the challenge here is the definition/expectation of "Full Self Driving". When I paid for it, I didn't really expect to be able to go to sleep while the car drives anytime soon. For me personally, technology is one of the few hobbies that I have, so I view it as "I'm funding enjoyment of my hobby - getting to play with the latest and greatest features." There are plenty of hobbies that people are spending well in excess of $6-$7k per year.

Spend your money how you want. Live your life how you want. Don't bother telling other people how they should spend and live their's.
 
An extra $1000 for a $55,000+ car (approximate)? Buy it if you want it! It's a very small part of the total, unless you look at the whole price of FSD - which is not cheap by most standards. I can't imagine $1000 difference would sway anyone either way in buying it or not.

Then again I don't want FSD. Never did. If I got it for free, I'd never use it. I love the way my Tesla drives. So I want to be the one driving it. People would get in line to drive these cars. Everyone is different, though.

If I am going to be constantly "nagged" to pay attention, then I may has well drive the car myself. If I could catch a few zz's during a long drive - then it might be worth it. But you can't.
 
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Those who think that FSD is far away should remember that right now AP3 is used at 5% and the rest is probably all spent on training. The whole driving now is identical on ap2.5 and ap3.

I only worry that they might need to change side camera modules to remove those blind zones. Or even change front facing camera, since it can't really see traffic lights up top.
 
Those who think that FSD is far away should remember that right now AP3 is used at 5% and the rest is probably all spent on training. The whole driving now is identical on ap2.5 and ap3.

I only worry that they might need to change side camera modules to remove those blind zones. Or even change front facing camera, since it can't really see traffic lights up top.
Direct into-the-sun glare seems to be a real issue for the side cameras, is that the "blind zones" you're talking about?
 
Hm, I just realized that we already know b pillar pictures from the hack. It overlaps front wide camera and b pillars. And it's also possible that traffic light visualization is not using front wide angle camera for now. So I take my words back.

merged.jpg
 
Hm, I just realized that we already know b pillar pictures from the hack. It overlaps front wide camera and b pillars. And it's also possible that traffic light visualization is not using front wide angle camera for now. So I take my words back.

In fact, I think the B-pillar angle does a very good job with crossroads. Green recently posted footage from a crash where the Tesla rolled through a stop sign, and you can see the approaching vehicle well in advance of the collision via the B-pillar:
green on Twitter
 
I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what FSD is though... For $7/8K for FSD, you get seven specific features (from the current Tesla website):
  1. Navigate on Autopilot (Beta): Actively guides your car from a highway’s on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting lane changes, navigating interchanges, automatically engaging the turn signal and taking the correct exit
  2. Auto Lane Change: Assists in moving to an adjacent lane on the highway when Autosteer is engaged
  3. Autopark: Helps automatically parallel or perpendicular park your car, with a single touch
  4. Summon: Moves your car in and out of a tight space using the mobile app or key
  5. Smart Summon: Your car will navigate more complex environments and parking spaces, maneuvering around objects as necessary to come find you in a parking lot.
  6. Traffic and Stop Sign Control (Beta): Identifies stop signs and traffic lights and automatically slows your car to a stop on approach, with your active supervision
  7. Upcoming: Autosteer on city streets

I think it's fine to hope that things like autonomous driving and robotaxis will eventually be offered for free after your FSD purchase, but nowhere is Telsa promising that those will happen. This is a huge FSD misconception I see everywhere. FSD is specifically defined as these 7 features, nothing more, nothing less. So when Elon says FSD will be "feature complete" this year, he's probably right. All that's needed is to enable autosteer on city streets, and you will have gotten everything you paid for with your FSD purchase. The decision to the buyer should be very simple then now that we're close to being "feature complete". If those 7 features are worth $7/8K to you, get FSD. If not, then don't buy it. Buying FSD and just assuming that Tesla will add something gamechanging is the future when they haven't promised you anything is a strategy that is likely to end is disappointment. To answer the thread topic, FSD at $7K is borderline worth it to me with those 7 features. Pre-COVID, I would have rolled the dice and said yes. Now, I'd prefer to have the cash in my pocket. I personally value the FSD feature set at about $5-6K.

This of course doesn't apply to the early adopters of FSD before early 2019. They were actually promised an autonomous vehicle. As I've said elsewhere, I imagine that there will have to be some sort of settlement with those folks eventually - either a partial refund or something else of value from Tesla like supercharger miles (a lot of them), extended warranties, etc.

How many people do you believe will buy FSD at 7k or 8k if all the features you mentioned are IT, meaning no more future improvements? Now we can agree to disagree on the perception of a reasonable person, our perception of how much FSD should cost based on CURRENT(minus street driving, because NO ONE know how much longer it'll take) features are going to be different. If all the features you mentioned are mature and fully available, then I might jump in on it. My problem is Elon had been selling the promise of a future (the future all of us have been waiting for years now). It's like the stock market, the price of a stock factors in future earning, the FSD factors in FUTURE features.
I'm simply stating that the 7k spent now based on FUTURE promise is NOT a good value or investment. O, in case you forgot, alot of these so called features you mentioned were part of EAP which was worth 5k. O, don't forget Tesla stripped out Autopilot from EAP and sell it at 3k. 7k on top of 3k makes it 10k difference between a car without any feature such as Standard Range at 35.4k and FSD equipped one.
Finally, everything we talk about here are personal OPINIONS, I believe FSD as it currently stands is a HORRIBLE buy. But hey, as long as you or anyone else believe it's fairly valued, go for it. I'm just gonna go buy more Tesla stock and support the company that way.
 
How many people do you believe will buy FSD at 7k or 8k if all the features you mentioned are IT, meaning no more future improvements?....My problem is Elon had been selling the promise of a future (the future all of us have been waiting for years now). It's like the stock market, the price of a stock factors in future earning, the FSD factors in FUTURE features....I'm simply stating that the 7k spent now based on FUTURE promise is NOT a good value or investment.
The thing is Tesla has been delivering. Constant drum beat of meaningful improvement in reliability in existing features and bringing new features online. They called the shot on stoplights/stop signs, and came through.

"Investing" is by definition putting money now towards some increased value in the future. So frankly it doesn't even matter that much how many people buying AP to FSD at $7K or $8K are doing it for exactly what they get now. If they are managing their expectations and keeping them still in line with Tesla's [strong] history of improvement that makes it a lot less risky "investment".

If they are expecting turned on and legally blessed rider-only for
Christmas, wherever they live? Well yeah, that's goin to be an disappointment in the works. But if they think having that in place that fast is only worth an extra $7K, then I guess it is a case of two wrongs does make it all right. :p
O, in case you forgot, alot of these so called features you mentioned were part of EAP which was worth 5k.
So now you're making the case that there is more value there, that maybe it is worth it straight up? ;)
O, don't forget Tesla stripped out Autopilot from EAP and sell it at 3k.
??? EAP never actually had anything taken out. It was discontinued as a purchasable option. You're talking about the lower tier AP. My recollection was a short period of time where the current Autopilot was sold as an option for $3K, and then it almost immediately got rolled into the price of all vehicles except the stripper SR (for around $1500, or so, based on pricing differences). So....
7k on top of 3k makes it 10k difference between a car without any feature such as Standard Range at 35.4k and FSD equipped one.
1) There are few people where that's the situation.
2) Well yeah, that's why an SR with FSD is a very rare combination. ;) Not sure about your point here? Other than FSD makes less sense for the cheapest Model 3? Which I generally agree with, for starters because you very likely paid more than with the SR+ to get there.
Finally, everything we talk about here are personal OPINIONS, I believe FSD as it currently stands is a HORRIBLE buy.
I'm of the personal OPINION that you are really, really HORRIBLE at laying out a case for that. ;)
 
The thing is Tesla has been delivering. Constant drum beat of meaningful improvement in reliability in existing features and bringing new features online. They called the shot on stoplights/stop signs, and came through.

"Investing" is by definition putting money now towards some increased value in the future. So frankly it doesn't even matter that much how many people buying AP to FSD at $7K or $8K are doing it for exactly what they get now. If they are managing their expectations and keeping them still in line with Tesla's [strong] history of improvement that makes it a lot less risky "investment".

If they are expecting turned on and legally blessed rider-only for
Christmas, wherever they live? Well yeah, that's goin to be an disappointment in the works. But if they think having that in place that fast is only worth an extra $7K, then I guess it is a case of two wrongs does make it all right. :p

So now you're making the case that there is more value there, that maybe it is worth it straight up? ;)

??? EAP never actually had anything taken out. It was discontinued as a purchasable option. You're talking about the lower tier AP. My recollection was a short period of time where the current Autopilot was sold as an option for $3K, and then it almost immediately got rolled into the price of all vehicles except the stripper SR (for around $1500, or so, based on pricing differences). So....

1) There are few people where that's the situation.
2) Well yeah, that's why an SR with FSD is a very rare combination. ;) Not sure about your point here? Other than FSD makes less sense for the cheapest Model 3? Which I generally agree with, for starters because you very likely paid more than with the SR+ to get there.

I'm of the personal OPINION that you are really, really HORRIBLE at laying out a case for that. ;)
Why does the need to feel *right* so important to you? Does berating other people to prove you're more of a Tesla fanboy, that important?

The topic is simply if FSD worth 7k before July 1st, there's really no right or wrong opinion. An item/thing is worth as much as a person is willing to pay for it, clearly lots of people believe FSD is worth 7k at the same time lots of people don't believe it's worth 7k.

I have no intention of getting into back and forth argument, since most if not all of us have the same goal which is to further Tesla's mission on sustainability.
You win, let's move on. Please keep outlining facts or specific features of the car, and tone it down on defending Tesla. There's really no need to try and prove other people's wrong. (If you're thinking ,"you're wrong" as you're reading this, that's precisely what I meant to tone down.)
 
I just don't see the added value. I am not going to bet on a Beta software system which from what I see just does not and cannot work reliably. Even the autosteer I presently have is wonky as all getout, gets confused by worn lane markings and some of the gantries of the toll lanes, scares the crap out of me when it gets confused.
The cruise control and collision avoidance work pretty well, and I use it daily. But another $7 Grand for the rest? Nope. I'm putting that by for a Long Range one day.