TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Wilson Car Park - Waste of EV charging resource in HK

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by kcin, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. kcin

    kcin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Wilson car parks across Hong Kong have EV charging bays. These bays are marked as EV priority, which basically means nothing! Most of these bays are occupied by non-EV. Most of the Wilson car parks in HK are managed under the Transportation Department. I filed a complaint to the Transportation Department. Their reply was that they have an equal use policy and they cannot make EV charging bays for EV only. I think this is a waste of scarce EV charging resources and not promoting the use of EV in Hong Kong.


    What’s your view? I know I cannot do much about that but was thinking of filing a complaint with the Office of the Ombudsman about this inappropriate policy.
     
  2. punter

    punter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    A complaint to the ombudsman makes plenty of sense. There are plenty of examples of policy precedent favouring EV's, such as the FRT tax (there is still some incentive left), as well as the preferential access to Lantau Closed Road permits. I suspect that the government has made no allowance for this in their lease agreements with Wilson, so I imagine that they are constrained. But perhaps if enough noise were to be made, something could be done over time. We should lobby the government to contract with a party other than Wilson, as a means of putting pressure on Wilson to get their act together.
     
  3. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,879
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    The most sensible way in my mind is to make a small percentage, say 20%, of the spaces EV-only and observe the result. If those spaces are always filled with EV, then increase the percentage. If it can be shown that the spaces will always be full of EV if just made available to them on an exclusive basis, then the stations won't be wasted. As it is, nobody with an EV goes there because they know they will never get a charging space. Once they are exclusive, people will go. Another sensible policy is that those spaces may only be used by ICE when the rest of the car park is full.
     
  4. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Chengdu, Sichuan,China
    Not my jurisdiction but I agree that this should be taken further.

    The reply you received shows a lack of logical thought or disdain for the same. The idea that equal use in a situation where there is an unequal need shows this is poor policy provision.
     
  5. ediot

    ediot Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    HONG KONG
    not sure if that's actually the case. the lantau self driving scheme have equal number of quota for EVs and for ICE. it's just that the ICE quota gets filled in a flash on a daily basis. i've struggled to get quota even when camping on the website back when i had ICE.
     
  6. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Charged.HK has met with TD regarding this. They keep saying that they cannot reserve spots for one type of vehicle, according to contractual arrangements. The end result is frustrating for all, and "EV Priority" means nothing.

    Our team in general thought that 'waste of government finance' is the best approach to force a change, but success unlikely. The concept is that government is supposed to make good use of public finance and not waste money. However, the installation and maintenance of all those charging spaces, when they cannot be used by EVs to actually charge, is a horrendous waste of money. Better to have 5 spaces that can actually be used than 20 that can't. Transport Department response is that they protect some spaces with cones, but remove the cones when the car park is full. The problem, of course, is that they can't put back the cones when the car park becomes less full (as when one ICE car leaves, another replaces it).
     
  7. FequalsMA

    FequalsMA Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    In an ideal world, government legistation and civil planning codes should be able to mandate compulorary minimums (whether it be private or public property) a la parking spaces for the differently abled, parking dedicated to government vehicles etc.

    But wait, doesn't this already happen?
    There are public (pay metered) spaces stating they are dedicated for large delivery vehicles.
     
  8. punter

    punter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I take the TD at face value that they don't have a contractual basis to force Wilson to reserve spots only for EVs. And it would be extremely difficult for Wilson to comply.

    Maybe we'd all be better of paying a small premium for simply occupying an EV space, and then this fee would apply to ICE's as well when occupying an EV space.........ICE's would really avoid this because they have no benefit from being in that particular space. At least we get the electricity. I bet that this would solve 95% of the problem as the ICE cars will have an incentive to avoid EV spaces. Having the option of paying a small fee to charge your car is much better than a complimentary EV charging space occupied by an ICE.
     
  9. saichinli

    saichinli Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    If the government's argument is that they cannot discriminate, then we should make the same argument and demand that all spaces are equipped with charging capability. Otherwise, they are discriminating against EV drivers.
     
  10. dlty

    dlty Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Well said!
     
  11. Optic

    Optic Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Yes the government is discriminating us. We are so entitled, the government should bend over for us because we are saving the world by driving electric. Rules and laws should bend for EVs at once. We, the minority EV owners, should be given privileges/advantages.








    (sarcastic)
     
  12. mattse

    mattse Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Isn't that a paradox? Cannot reserve any spots by contract (legally) but attempted (heroically) to protect some spaces with cones, either one seems to be a lie to me

    For the cones argument, if they were to "protect some spaces", they could have simply impound any ICE taking EV spots, Wilson will have no problem with it as the income from admin fee will be much higher than 24-hour parking fee in most car parks. And this was done in some shopping mall car parks before, eliminated ICEing in these car parks soon enough

    This one is funny, equal use policy, haha, then we can't have spots reserved for drivers with Disabled Person's Parking Permit, can we? That's frank reverse discrimination!! @kcin please follow up on their reply and ask for the official documents from TD on this "equal use policy". I believe the result would be interesting

    No, I would say the government should put a socket in every space in government owned car park so that users are given the freedom to choose to charge or not to charge. This is equal. If I were driving an ICE and I am not given the same choice as those who park at the EV charging bays, this is not equal

    [​IMG]

    We are asking for equity, EV charging bays for EV only because the systemic barrier (owners corporation rejecting home chargers) will still be there when Tesla enters North Korean market finally
     
  13. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Their response was that "EV Priority" is different than "EV Exclusive" (contractually not allowed). The cones are there to just assist with giving EVs priority.

    Their response was that actually getting the guy to pay was non trivial. Sometimes the vehicle owner fights it, and the case drags on for days/weeks consuming large amounts of manpower.
     
  14. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Basic thing is the education/quality of the people... you can have all the laws in the world but unless you have a state where they punish litter bugs and EV charging spot abusers (ICEing a EV charger while there are plenty of other ICE parking available as happens all the time in HK) with public stoning, behaviours are not going to change without a sense of self discipline and self respect in people....
     
  15. punter

    punter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Seriously folks. They can introduce a small fee for occupying an EV space to cover the electricity usage - whether or not the car plugs in or not - and 95% of the ICE cars will be gone from these spaces. Collection can be via an Octopus parking meter, and enforcement could be done by the meter maids or by Wilson. Problem solved. If we can afford a Tesla we can afford a nominal fee for ensuring access to electricity.
     
  16. FequalsMA

    FequalsMA Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Depending on how "small" the fee is, it might not be enough of a deterant as ICE owners may opt to pay the extra charge anyways if there are no other spaces in the lot.
     
  17. punter

    punter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    We get what we pay for in life. If we want government sponsored free charging, we can't realistically expect a quality product. What we get is a half ass enforcement effort and cones in front of spaces. Or we get free but under-supplied supercharging from Tesla, where we pay for it indirectly through the value of our time spent waiting. This isn't a sustainable long term solution to EV charging infrastructure. If we want an economically sustainable, high quality EV charging service, then we as users are going to need to pay for it.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. mattse

    mattse Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I will give them credit for doing their homework and creating different categories to explain their near hands-off management philosophy

    Can't see why the car park management will have to spend extra manpower in case someone refuses to pay. If the owner refuses to pay, he simply can't drive the car away, and the parking charge goes up. At least that's the case for private car park, everything becomes "non trivial" when it comes to govt's hand.

    Mind you most if not all of the charging bays are conveniently located (next to elevators etc) to shorten connecting cable. I doubt if a small fee will help. Plus, govt encounters such huge difficulties with coning these EV spaces / impounding cars, will they be able to charge extra on any space legally?

    I just can't see why shopping malls can provide quality free charging with EV exclusive spaces

    Anyway, I agree with @punter on paying for charging, but it simply could not help much unless the car park management (be it Wilson or TD) is willing to take action
     
  19. punter

    punter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    mattse raises a good point here. ICE's are much more like to occupy the EV spaces if they are in the most convenient locations. If, for example, the EV spots at Star Ferry were on the second floor, then the ICEHOLES will be much less likely to park there. I bet this would solve 80% of the problem, and it would be a quick fix. Anyways folks, I'm trying to propose some realistic/workable solutions to the problem, not just bitch and moan! That's not going to accomplish anything.
     

Share This Page