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Winter Driver: Extremely hazardous
- Thread starter smuseby
- Start date
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Even with cars with framed windows it's a bad idea to pull on frozen doors hard to open them, you can pull the weather-stripping off the car. They still need to be maintained with something like Gummi Pflege. I'm surprised you didn't know this.
That shows good sense. Please maintain your door seals. Actually, the window is not the first thing to break, it would be a tear of the door seal, just like any other car.
That probably explains why you don't know about maintaining your door seals. Because they are a MUCH bigger problem when you get thaw followed by arctic/mountain air. And where I'm at is NOTHING like Seattle in terms of weather!
Actually, I traveled through MN in January when it was -10F without windchill. North Dakota was much worse, it was -20F and blowing 35-40 mph. You have it easy!
I didn't call you a "dumbass", I was trying to help since I have more experience with doors freezing shut than you do. Not only is my climate more prone to that sort of thing, I've been a motorist through more winters and with more cars. If you don't want my helpful suggestions, don't read my posts. I'm sure there are other people who may find them useful.
It sounds like it's starting to get to you. Can I recommend a vacation somewhere further south? Personally, winter is my favorite season which is why I search out mountain storms.
Well, that's good to hear! I'm sure you would like the Model 3 even better. It has addressed many of the weak points identified in the Model S. I'm not claiming ALL Tesla are the best winter cars ever, but my P3D is the best winter car I've ever owned or driven. That's a fact.
Got a mirror?
Other cars can have similar issues but the end result wasn’t so bad and easier to recover from. I think if I did not have the luxury of a garage and a backup car, I’d hate this car in winter. You have to baby it through winter. I’ve never had to lube gaskets on any car. I’ve had frameless before. They didn’t damage chrome or ever get out of sync (of where full up is) once the glass was released they were good to go.
They are a weak design for winter. If you baby it (like lube gaskets) and NEVER trust it to over power the ice (as my other cars did 99% of the time) you can get by.
On my VW CC with frameless windows. I can’t tell you how many times I didn’t clean and hear a loud crack and thought, oh shoot that was a bad idea. But it was perfectly fine. And when it didn’t go down it never lost it’s place. Where in much milder conditions ( because I baby it) it’s almost assured failure if you see ice on the side windows (and sometimes even when you don’t see anything). I suspect the motors are weak because they probably went with a less heavy motor than most cars.
That all said the “cold weather” update to “baby” the windows further by never closing them fully until you drive has helped quite a bit. I think water collects at the base of the window and does not drain out when the window is fully up. Keeping them down gives them more opportunity to drain and air out that seal.
Lubing the upper gasket does help a tiny bit, but not where the real problem is. I’ve seen the window refuse to move with the door open.
Every car has weaknesses, this just one of them.
They are a weak design for winter. If you baby it (like lube gaskets) and NEVER trust it to over power the ice (as my other cars did 99% of the time) you can get by.
On my VW CC with frameless windows. I can’t tell you how many times I didn’t clean and hear a loud crack and thought, oh shoot that was a bad idea. But it was perfectly fine. And when it didn’t go down it never lost it’s place. Where in much milder conditions ( because I baby it) it’s almost assured failure if you see ice on the side windows (and sometimes even when you don’t see anything). I suspect the motors are weak because they probably went with a less heavy motor than most cars.
That all said the “cold weather” update to “baby” the windows further by never closing them fully until you drive has helped quite a bit. I think water collects at the base of the window and does not drain out when the window is fully up. Keeping them down gives them more opportunity to drain and air out that seal.
Lubing the upper gasket does help a tiny bit, but not where the real problem is. I’ve seen the window refuse to move with the door open.
Every car has weaknesses, this just one of them.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't even own a garage and I haven't had to do anything on this car that I didn't do on all my previous cars and it's still been the best in the winter nasties.
I think it might be related to the fact that the Model 3 is the most expensive car many people have ever owned. This is seen in the trade-in data where people were trading in older, less valuable cars like Toyota Prius, Honda Accords, Honda Civics. The Model 3's performance, cool-factor and "greeness" caused people to spend $70,000 on a new car who had never even bought a new car before, let alone a $70,000 one. And people are treating it with kid gloves, afraid to hurt it, afraid to slide off the road in the ice and snow. In short, they are TERRIFIED owning this car. And it's causing a certain amount of double standard. A little slip or slide that wouldn't have given them pause in a Honda Accord scares the crap out of them in their brand new Model 3. And the oldest Model 3's are only a year old - it's all so new.
Myself, I don't treat new cars with kid gloves. I take care of them but I don't obsess over them because I know that within 15-25 years they will probably be sent to the auto recyclers and put in a crusher. All cars value goes almost to zero in a much shorter timeframe than most of us have left on earth. In the meantime I want to enjoy them and get good service out of them. So I'm not afraid to have some fun with them.
cmarshack
Member
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No matter how much you spend on a car, the windows and doors will still freeze shut when weather conditions are conducive to that. Even a $1 million Ferrari/Bugatti/Lamborghini, etc. will freeze shut if parked in such conditions.
That's excellent news, I'm sure you're ready for some non-freezing weather by now.
My Jeep windows have never ever frozen shut in conditions the Tesla will. Night and day difference. Oh my Jeep cost more than some Model 3 Trims. So we can put that excuse to bed.
Why can’t you admit Tesla could do a lot better here. Why do you think it’s discussed so often?
The only time my VW CC froze was when Ice was VISIBLE at the base of the glass on the OUTSIDE and I was to lazy to clean it thinking it would over power it, and usually did. If I cleared that it would always open. The Tesla’s freeze INSIDE. From trapped water/moisture that might have occurred days ago.
I washed my cars yesterday. They are both in a 45-50F garage. It’s cold out today 25F and windy. I guarantee if I took it to work, when I leave work they would be frozen. I guess I’ll take the Jeep today. I need to baby my baby.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
It's 19 degrees F here this morning. I just checked my Model 3. Not frozen shut. Windows operational, door handles a little stiff but not frozen. I don't know why it's discussed so often because both our Model 3's are no worse than our previous ICE cars (and much better than our VW Eurovan that would need some real pounding to get the windows and doors to free up).
I think you had better check your door drains to make sure they're not plugged with something. It sounds like humidity is building up in there. If your problem was a design issue and endemic to the Model 3, I think both my wife's and my Model 3 would have the issue considering that we live in one of the wettest areas of the country, don't have a garage, and have been getting hard freezes almost every night.
This is how I baby my Model 3:
Like any other car I treat this way, after a rain followed by a hard freeze it might need a few impacts with the heel of my gloved hand to free the seals but then it works normally. If I'm plugged in I generally pre-heat the car to reduce battery cycling and then I don't even need to scrape the ice off the windshield.
I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble but I really think you need to check that your door drains are clear.
None of my cars have ever needed that. Other than scraping ice off to see through it.
Most of my cars have been Jeeps, Audi or VW.
Tesla is the first one I have to baby and plan accordingly around it's weaknesses.
One time all 4 windows were frozen and there was not a snow flake on it. It's because I washed it a couple days earlier.
Fluffy snow is not the problem. It's rain (or washing), followed by cold weather that is the big issue.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Apparently you don't understand the climate I live in here in the North Cascades foothills. Cars get encased in ice on a regular basis in the winter. Yes, wet, followed by hard freeze. Please check your door drains.
mknox
Well-Known Member
LOL, not nearly good enough. I use -47 F fluid because I find the -35 stuff wouldn't freeze in the lines, but would freeze on the glass as soon as I squirted it if it was really cold.
Yeah, I have one too. Remembering I have it is another thing.
Apologies in that I am a new Model 3 dual motor owner (October 18). I live in Milwaukee and it has been a horrible snow filled below zero winter. My approach to this as I have learned the ropes of this car have yielded an outstanding winter weather AWD car:
1. I bought Michelin snow tires for all 4 wheels--huge difference, really effective AWD now, even in a few inches of snow on the road
2. I park outdoors but on cold nights leave it charging which keeps the battery at least slightly warm. Then 15 minutes before I need the car I put it on high climate control from my iPhone
3. The defroster (red not blue push twice) is a very high power high temp front windshield defroster--works great if you leave on a few minutes and thaws windshield washer blades as well
4. Rear defroster also very effective
5. If the iPhone controller won't turn these on go out to the car put on all the hi power stuff and press "keep climate on" when I leave the car button
6. All this happens with car still plugged in so no mile reduction using all this stuff
7. Keep car charged up after work, I've noticed up to 40% mileage reduction at below zero temps
1. I bought Michelin snow tires for all 4 wheels--huge difference, really effective AWD now, even in a few inches of snow on the road
2. I park outdoors but on cold nights leave it charging which keeps the battery at least slightly warm. Then 15 minutes before I need the car I put it on high climate control from my iPhone
3. The defroster (red not blue push twice) is a very high power high temp front windshield defroster--works great if you leave on a few minutes and thaws windshield washer blades as well
4. Rear defroster also very effective
5. If the iPhone controller won't turn these on go out to the car put on all the hi power stuff and press "keep climate on" when I leave the car button
6. All this happens with car still plugged in so no mile reduction using all this stuff
7. Keep car charged up after work, I've noticed up to 40% mileage reduction at below zero temps
nutts1
Member
First off, I think you are exhibiting an Americanized view in your observation that 29 degrees above "sub zero". As another post mentioned "sub zero" is merely another term for winter. If you go by the Centegrade scale "0" is 32 degrees Fahrenheit and I think that is a better reference for what the package is intended for, ie. below freezing. I live in Northern NJ and have had my "S" with the sub zero package for the last 3 winters. No issues whatsoever and very happy with its performance both in terms of traction and windshield visibility.
I have, it does suck, wipers just chatter.sub zero is necessary if you are in cold often. Wasn’t an option on my car
I agree with the other users. Some of it is user error. I drove this past weekend to mammoth and other weekends before without issues in 10-30 degree weather. Last year in Tahoe too. Front and rear Defroster on red. I don’t even use the front defrosters that much since icing doesn’t occur on the windshields. 2nd. Winter package was 1000 when I bought my car in 2016. I’ve always bought it as an extra on every car. 3rd. If you don’t have it - use the proper winter windshield washer fluid-it doesn’t freeze-never had that issue. Btw I haven’t had any cars with a rear windshield wiper or fluid. It doesn’t make sense to. At the angle of the rear window. It isn’t needed. I’ve only seen them on suv, trucks, vans and some crossovers with a vertical like rear window. Again use the rear defrosters. A lot of this can be resolved for asking for help prior to going up to the mountains. I’ve taken Audi, bmw, Toyota, Lexus, and Subaru to the slopes yet the Tesla has been my favorite for driving up in the mountains. It’s a matter of learning how to use the cars. I’ve done the same thing with other cars - not knowing how to use a feature. It doesn’t mean the car is terrible.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your post and info. So from the posting, it sounds as the Tesla operated pretty much like any other ICE car I've owned and going through that area under those conditions. I go over that pass regularly with my X and I purchased the winter package, and I have no issues that you describe.
As for me, I don't care about not having the manual local as I know the car by now and never needed to refer to it when driving, but sure, it might be nice to have it in memory for folks. I also don't care about the AM radio thing as I just use my cell phone to call the road conditions line for updated emergency info as it is updated more often than those am radio recordings anyway.
I wouldn't put too much thought into the "sub-zero" marketing on that package. Technically, it is sub-zero if you convert that temperature to centigrade. Much of the world uses centigrade you know ;-)
I hope you have better luck on your next trip. This sure is an unusual winter up here.
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