Winter driving advice, winter tire choices, etc.

[ecospider5]

One thing to be aware of, electric cars can get high centered in snow. I really like my Xice on my Model 3 but I found out the hard way that since electric cars have a perfectly flat battery underneath driving in snow 2 inches higher than your bumper can get you high centered. I regularly used to drive my Infiniti G20 in 9-10 inches if snow. With good tire chains I had plenty of Traction for the front bumper to push through the snow without a problem. After the bumper made the snow height 6” the 5” ground clearance of the car was not an issue because there was plenty of nooks and crannies for the snow to go around, the exhaust and transmission ect. This is not the same with the model 3 and 5.5” of ground clearance. The dual motor and Michelin Xice gave me the most traction I have ever had in a car On ice and snow. I drove around plenty of SUV’s that didn’t have snow tires. But leaving my driveway one day with 10” fresh snow the bumper plowed the snow down to 6”. The underside of the car was pushed up on top of that. And I finally Lost traction. I had to use a tow strap to pull me 1 foot till there was enough weight on the wheels and I could drive. Then I zig zagged over the snow to pack it down and drove away fine. So with Xice Tires and dual motor, traction was never a problem even with my steep driveway and icy days. But I am now careful not to drive over tall fresh snow

 

[ecospider5]

Will respectfully disagree with this. I had my LR Perf model during the coldest of the winter months here last winter, parked in an attached but not climate-controlled garage and was able to charge at about 3mi/hr from the 110 wall outlet. Temps in the garage sometimes got down into the upper teens/lower 20's, and even after having the car sitting out in the middle of an open parking lot with the wind howling through it for 10 hours a day with temps near 0, I was still able to get it to charge when I got back home. It did appear to want to warm the battery for a bit while plugged in and the charge speed was reduced some, it still usually stayed steady at 3mi/hr.

I think whenever you are charging on 120v you should check after a couple hours how the charge is going. Battery heater, sentry mode, and plenty of other settings can use battery power when just sitting. So verifying you are charging fast enough will let you know if you need to adjust your settings.

I have everything on in my Model 3 that can cause vampire drain and put 1200 miles a month on the car. TezLab shows that 40% battery usage every month is from vampire drain. I doubt 120v 12amp charging would work for me.

 

[PACEMD]

I have been getting 4-5 mph on 15 amp 110v and 120 v circuits both outside at work, in a haft covered carport, or in our non-heated garage at home, with temperatures down to 20 degrees F. I will report back on what happens when the temp drops in the 0 to -20 range. I'm not expecting that to be pretty.

 

[Shlanta]

Just found this winter driving article on Tesla's support site.

Winter Driving Tips

I found this bit really interesting. Has anyone tried it?

• 
  Autopilot
  
  • To ensure optimal Autopilot performance, keep the sensors and radar on your car clear of snow, ice, mud and dirt.
  • You can use Rust-Oleum NeverWet Top Coat on the front fascia of your car to help prevent ice buildup on the radar sensors used by Autopilot.
    • Use Step 2 Top Coat only.
    • A hazy finish may be present after the coating is applied, but after ice resistance is no longer needed it can be easily wiped off.
  • Please refer to the ‘About Driver Assistance’ section of your Owner’s Manual for sensor location information.

 

[Beprimeau]

I would second a few of the additions to the original post. I unfortunately have to park my Model 3 outdoors year-round because of a tiny garage which is more of an extra-large storage shed.

1) Turn off Auto-Fold on the mirrors for the winter. When the sun melts snow in the middle of the day and then the temp drops and the melt freezes, you can get stuck with no sideview mirrors, which is much more dangerous than you would think at first blush. It was very hard to unstick them by main force and I worried about damaging the folding apparatus.

2) I had lots of trouble with the windows freezing in the "up" position and not dropping to clear the trim. It is a good idea to have a credit card or similar device and run it between the window and the seals. I had a thin plastic paint scraper that worked well--but remember to keep it in the house or in your winter coat and not in the car!

3) I had occasional trouble with having the doors freeze shut. Treating the door seals with silicone lube helped some.

4) The pop-out door handles frequently froze and it took a lot of pushing to pop them out and then they would not retract by themselves. You get used to pushing them back in yourself after the 50th time that the door latch does not catch. This seems like a design flaw caused by the car being designed in California. I agree that many things might be different if Elon lived in a cold weather state.

Cold weather range loss is a very real thing and was startling to us at first, since we got our car in December in Indiana. We would have a range reading (I call it the "putative range") of 200 miles and only get 140 or less in sub-freezing temps. Until I learned more from this web site I was feeling that Tesla was selling "250 mile battery" under false pretenses. It was a nice change of pace to start getting much better range when spring rolled around and the temps went up!

 

[MRGEDU]

Any recommendations for a cheap winter wheel for the Performance 3? It’s seems to be a big unknown with wheel vendors when I ask if they will fit a Performance Model 3. Most want me to buy one and test fit, then send it back if it doesn’t work. I am just looking for an inexpensive set that will clear the brakes so I can put some all season tires on for 4 months of the year.

Any first hand knowledge of specific wheels and offsets would be helpful. I would like to go with an 18” but 19” is also fine if the price is less.

 

[nicholb]

One more tip I forgot in my list. If you wear gloves make sure they are touch screen compatible. Otherwise you won't be use the screen controls.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

I use the T-Sportline 18"s for winter wheels, they properly fit the Performance Model 3. They are pricier than some other inexpensive wheels, but I don't know of any that are less expensive that specifically fit the Performance Model 3.

 

[destructure00]

Konig Hypergram or Dekagram. They are around $200/wheel from Discount. The 18s fit fine. Center bore is larger than factory so no issues with the lip if you run them lug centric, or maybe you could find a hub ring that clears the lip to run them hub centric.

 

[MRGEDU]

I use the T-Sportline 18"s for winter wheels, they properly fit the Performance Model 3. They are pricier than some other inexpensive wheels, but I don't know of any that are less expensive that specifically fit the Performance Model 3.

Yeah but $1200 is a bit much for winter only wheels. If I was going to upgrade and keep them on I would go with them, but I want something that I will not care about getting damaged or being exposed to salt and calcium chloride.

 

[Craaaig]

I have seen the advantages of winter tires and have been using them for decades. In my experience there are no tires that can compare to Nokian Hakkapelitas (check spelling!). They are from Finland (same as Nokia phones) and the only tire company to have a test track above the arctic circle!

 

[Jerev]

M3 LR AWD owner in NYC area bought new 19" AXIS wheels with 235/40R19 Vredestein Quatrac 5 on Tire Rack. Good ratings. Will report back on snow performance: "snowflake rated" for light snow even though an All Season tire, but not a true snow tire. Figured it may give me what I need for the light 3-4 inchers we get but would not try it in anything heavy. If climate change reverses and we get some dumps again, will take my OEM 18" and mount true snows.

 

[Lobstahz]

This issue isn't really the traction control. The issue is that there is zero torque applied to the front wheels until slippage is detected in the rear. I agree there should be a snow mode for the AWD system.

I remember reading similar things, but I don't remember where I heard that. From my interpretation of watching how it performs on rollers it looks to be splitting power between the front and back from a standstill. Either way I'm getting lost in the tech-weeds. I'm not 100% sure on how to go about achieving a more conservative "operating mode" but I sure would like one

 

[cleveland97]

OP -

FANTASTIC list. I'm actually not much looking forward to winter with this car. Got mine in Sept 2018 and while I was still thrilled with the car during the winter months I like it SOOO much better in the summer months. Your list would go a long way to making winter in a Model 3 a little less troublesome.

For an AWD with winter tires (which I have) this car is not nearly as stable as others I have driven in the winter and I think it could relatively easily be improved with software.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I remember reading similar things, but I don't remember where I heard that. From my interpretation of watching how it performs on rollers it looks to be splitting power between the front and back from a standstill. Either way I'm getting lost in the tech-weeds. I'm not 100% sure on how to go about achieving a more conservative "operating mode" but I sure would like one

You can see at 1:00 that the the rear wheels spin before the fronts. I verified it myself on a lift. I think these roller tests are kind of silly. My Subaru would have spun all day on the rollers, since it only had viscous differentials and no traction control of any kind, but it was nicer to drive in the snow. The Model 3 works ok if you just let the rear end snake around as it keeps transferring torque between the front and rear.

 

[Chisale]

at what temp does efficiency start to degrade? i just lowered my car an inch and the day i took my car home from the shop saw an increase in efficiency....temp was around 70. my drive to work today was about 345wi/mi when i average about 280 normally .. temp was 50. lowest temps so far with my model 3.

Yes, heater use is biggest thing. But independent of that, I keep track on long drives and I can start to see a marginal change anywhere below 50. Below 40 is when it really kicks in to the point where on long trips you have to change your supercharging/alternative charging schedule. It's just a drawback of Li-ion batteries. Like other people have said, ICE cars drop too but they are so wasteful their loss of efficiency is swamped by other factors.

 

[Chisale]

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

Great tips. Very important reading for new drivers. My home charger is 8.5kW and I have noticed that when you first turn on heat and defrosters the wall charger can't keep up at first and you'll lose some miles (maybe even 4 or 5) But be patient, once the car approaches your set point the wall charger will start to catch up and restore your full range. Bottom line, start the warm up procedure early.

It's also even more important in winter time to remind people when traveling to a supercharger, put it in NAV well before you get there. Sometimes the battery conditioning can take half an hour or more in colder weather. Otherwise your charging speed will be greatly reduced once you get there.

As far as the regen issue. I have noticed that the more full the battery the warmer the temperature that limited regen kicks in. Makes sense intuitively. But if it's a concern to you then charging to only 70 or 80% for local driving might be a good tip. Honestly, in my opinion when the regen is limited it's not too bad. Now, when regen is turned off, crap. That is like driving a new car again. "What I have to use the brake." You do notice when limited regen turns off and you're back to full regen again.

Thanks again for posting. Good tips.

 

[CarlE_P439]

If you have a RWD car, I highly recommend getting winter tires. I drive a 2012 Model S RWD and after almost running out of charge years ago while driving in the snow (major slippage!!!) I have used winter tires (in the winter) ever since. Not sure about AWD. All these other winter driving recommendations are good!

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

 

[CarlE_P439]

The 80% up to 90% is good advice! Thanks!

I have an X P90D. To handle the cold weather charging, I usually charge to 80% over night, which is enough for my daily needs, even in winter. Then when I wake up, I set the charge to 90% to warm the battery up before I leave for work. We have mild winters here, so it works for me. I'd love to be able to make the changes between 80% and 90% automatic.

The big thing I notice is that when going straight, the road always feels perfect. I'm sure this is because the traction control is adapting so quickly, I can't feel anything. At least once a winter, I end up sliding into an intersection because the road was much icier than I thought. Thus far I've been lucky and never hit anything. So my biggest advice to anyone driving a Tesla in winter is that the road is always much worse than you think and to drive accordingly.

 

[CarlE_P439]

I have no problem swapping my tires twice a year for my 2012 Model S (RWD)

Great write up!

Go with the winter tire/wheel set up. The tire compound on winter tires are softer, which is even more evident as the temp drops below 40 degrees. The industry as a whole has firmed up the compound on 'all season' tires so they last longer, at the detriment to cold weather driving. In addition, the industry has moved away from 'Snow' tires and towards 'winter' tires. Part of this may be to reach a larger swath of customers in parts of the country where it may only snow a couple times a year, but where the temp is below 40.

Some people swap (re-mount) their tires back and forth 2x a year, but that's just a lot of hassle. The advantages to a dedicated winter setup is: less wear & tear mounting 2 times a year, scratching or denting an aftermarket rim in the winter is less expensive, and by having 2 sets, they last longer in total.

Sure, Teslas have great traction control, and it is better than other cars on the market, when compared on the same tires. Winter tires are just better for starting, turning and stopping in cold and snow conditions though. Can you also wear cowboy boots in the winter, sure.

How many members have driven on winter tires for a season, then said, "I think I'm just going to keep my all-season tires on this winter?"