I've noticed the traction control has improved since last winter. Last year my LR RWD Model 3's backend would slide out a bit before the traction control would kick in and straighten it out. This year driving on several icy and snowy days I've had no occurrences of slide out. The car just takes off straight. I have not made any tire changes, still stock areos.
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Winter driving advice, winter tire choices, etc.
- Thread starter Colgate2004
- Start date
TomB985
Member
Looks like there are few of us on here from Minnesota.
The way they constantly tweak things, this doesn't surprise me. I got mine in April and hadn't really experience traction control until it started snowing a few months ago. I'm way beyond impressed, the system reacts faster and more reasonably than any other I've driven. Some cut power to the point where they are almost unusable, but the current calibration seems to do a great job maximizing available traction while keeping me in a straight line.
My only wish is the ability to turn it off when I want to have some fun… But it's probably better they don't give me that option.
The way they constantly tweak things, this doesn't surprise me. I got mine in April and hadn't really experience traction control until it started snowing a few months ago. I'm way beyond impressed, the system reacts faster and more reasonably than any other I've driven. Some cut power to the point where they are almost unusable, but the current calibration seems to do a great job maximizing available traction while keeping me in a straight line.
My only wish is the ability to turn it off when I want to have some fun… But it's probably better they don't give me that option.
@holgang. I have R3’s as well and they are not good starting from a dead stop if it’s at all slick it’s all rear motor breaking traction and the front not engaging. I opened at ticket and they didn’t seem anything in the logs but the tech mentioned to me that what I was describing is what they had last winter with the Tesla sold winter tire package Sottozeros which was fixed in a software update.
He escalated my ticket to engineering but I’m not holding my breath it’s been a month and nothing.
I see why people recommend low regen now. Most of my driving has been on the local roads with snow and ice covered stuff, so fastest I'm going is maybe 30-35.
I was out on the highway today and there's some icy spots and every time I pulled off on the accelerator when regen kicked in I felt the back slide. It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't that icy. And I definitely wasn't quite expecting it.
I was out on the highway today and there's some icy spots and every time I pulled off on the accelerator when regen kicked in I felt the back slide. It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't that icy. And I definitely wasn't quite expecting it.
At least in MN slippery conditions also come with cold temps. I usually see no need to change out of standard regen as I usually have almost no regen in the winter due to cold temps and an unheated garage. Probably more useful when the car is warmed up enough for regen and the roads are slippery.
Here's a crazy idea... maybe Tesla needs to hire some coders with a little more experience with cars. It's 2020 and Tesla has had cars on the roads for years and has collected thousands of hours of data and they still can't figure out how to correctly manage traction control, anti-lock braking, automatic emergency braking, and regenerative braking — at the same time — when it's raining, snowing or cold enough to freeze? An end user had to suggest that maybe they could better handle the bluetooth handoff from phone to car by using the seat sensor? There are plenty of sensors in the car that can help the software figure out if it's wet or dry, hot or cold, if the tires have traction or not and they can't use all that data to somehow figure out how to properly manage regenerative braking without me having to go into a menu ahead of my drive and 'reducing' it (along with switching to 'chill')?
My wife drives it daily in Chicago an I have to listen to her complaints about how her 2016 BMW 3 series had much better handling and didn't fishtail in the snow and ice like this 2019 AWD M3 does. At first, I thought she was just getting used to it as a different car but then I drove it a bit on the weekend when we had some snow and noticed the same. Having to go find some arcane setting in a buried menu because the car can't figure this out on its own makes the car seem substantially less 'premium' (I'm not going to go into the center console, or the lack of automatic trunk/frunk or the interior lights) than it should be for the price.
Likewise, after seeing how all the 'autopilot' and 'cruise control' features are disabled anytime it's less than ideal conditions really makes me wonder how I'm going to get my $6,000 worth of 'full self-driving' if it starts to rain or snow? I'm guessing people in the Seattle area are completely out of luck.
I really like my Tesla but these are the kind of things that are going to really kill Tesla if they can't fix these things before another major manufacturer with a lot of car-making history goes full-on EV because it's the simple everyday things that drive the market, build customer loyalty and spread via word of mouth.
How would the Tesla coders, or coders of other major manufacturers dictate this logic?
It can be warm but icy. It can be cold but not icy. It can be icy in certain spots but not in most other. (probably the most dangerous scenario). It can be outside, but your car could read warm from being parked in a controlled garage.
Anti-lock braking works by detecting that slip has already occured. When ABS is actively managing traction, the car is already in a critical, emergency state. I'd rather the regeneration function not push itself to that threshold. Or automatically lower its power output because it's 35*F, but clear, sunny, and dry (say, like Denver could be).
For certain stuff, automation is good. Not for everything though.
It's refreshing to see someone realize this. I also noticed about a month ago when it was really nasty that even the Low setting isn't good enough when going 50km/h (30mph) if it's really really icy. Back end will still kick out and when it's that icy, the process of getting traction back is not a great time.
I now wish we had an option for no regen. Fiddling with getting between drive and neutral is not a solution, especially with how that works in a Model 3.
To be utterly fair, the way anti-lock braking works actually depends on that wheel locking up first. Same with traction control systems, they detect slip, not prevent it. These systems intervene, not prevent. The car cannot tell if the road is wet, oily, icy, cold, hot, pavement, gravel, snow, metal grating, etc. And if it can via the cameras, I doubt it's reliable identification at this stage. And even if it was reliable, it has no way of knowing what type and condition of tires you have equipped. And keep in mind road conditions can change extremely fast, e.g. bridges or frozen puddles on an otherwise dry road.
Design and decision prevents. For AWD models, a more front-motor bias (snow mode?) would help most drivers. For all models, using chill mode and low regen helps to a degree. That rear motor will ramp up far too easily otherwise at low speeds despite all efforts to apply absolutely minimal acceleration.
Hi all!
Looking for some help on my painful quest to find R18 Rims for those Canadian Winters!
Decided on the Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 ( 245/45/18) but good looking Rims are quite tricky.
Around ≤300$/rim I think. I like negative Offsets but its absolutely not mandatory.
Style/taste is obviously very individual but I'm open to any suggestions!
Thanks guys, much appreciated!
Looking for some help on my painful quest to find R18 Rims for those Canadian Winters!
Decided on the Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 ( 245/45/18) but good looking Rims are quite tricky.
Around ≤300$/rim I think. I like negative Offsets but its absolutely not mandatory.
Style/taste is obviously very individual but I'm open to any suggestions!
Thanks guys, much appreciated!
Drove up I-70 from Denver in the snow and Berthoud pass to Winter Park yesterday. Blowing snow from Morrison to Floyd Hill, and nasty traffic until the curve at the bottom. Then weather and traffic started to clear a bit. Berthoud was snow covered and icy.
M3 AWD w Toyo Observe Garit KX. Regen = low, Acceleration = chill :
Still a little bit of under/over steer undesireable traction control behavior at low speeds (in traffic particularly) on slightly curving sections of I-70 when road is slushy/icy. It is definitely a lot worse in uphill-curving scenarios than downhill. Downhill snow performance is better than ICE cars IMHO.
I also heard some people with newer ICE AWD cars say that they also see some weird traction control behavior on I-70 curves in traffic and that it may be more of a general problem of modern traction control versus older AWD vehicles.
Handled great on Berthoud including through those icy hairpin turns. A few minimal slips and traction control did its job. I'm getting used to how it handles vs my old 2004 BMW 325xi. I didn't go much faster than 35-40mph on Berthoud but that is plenty fast when the roads are that bad.
M3 AWD w Toyo Observe Garit KX. Regen = low, Acceleration = chill :
Still a little bit of under/over steer undesireable traction control behavior at low speeds (in traffic particularly) on slightly curving sections of I-70 when road is slushy/icy. It is definitely a lot worse in uphill-curving scenarios than downhill. Downhill snow performance is better than ICE cars IMHO.
I also heard some people with newer ICE AWD cars say that they also see some weird traction control behavior on I-70 curves in traffic and that it may be more of a general problem of modern traction control versus older AWD vehicles.
Handled great on Berthoud including through those icy hairpin turns. A few minimal slips and traction control did its job. I'm getting used to how it handles vs my old 2004 BMW 325xi. I didn't go much faster than 35-40mph on Berthoud but that is plenty fast when the roads are that bad.
"All weather" tires don't exist, except in marketing dreams. They are much worse in snow and ice. I need snow tires for perhaps 8 days per winter in Colorado, but then they make a big difference. They will save me an accident every 2 years.
Sgt.GuyGrr
Member
Hello All,
I've got a 2020 M3P on order and should arrive in about a month. I live in Wisconsin so winter tires are a must.. Looking to get people's opinion and experience on what size works well. I'm torn between the looks of a 20" setup vs the practicality of an 18" setup. Maybe 19" is a nice compromise...then do you go with a square or staggered setup (again looks vs practicality.)
Considering this package from Tsportline (Tesla Model 3 19)
or something a little more custom/sexy looking (Introducing the Vossen HF-1)
I've got a 2020 M3P on order and should arrive in about a month. I live in Wisconsin so winter tires are a must.. Looking to get people's opinion and experience on what size works well. I'm torn between the looks of a 20" setup vs the practicality of an 18" setup. Maybe 19" is a nice compromise...then do you go with a square or staggered setup (again looks vs practicality.)
Considering this package from Tsportline (Tesla Model 3 19)
or something a little more custom/sexy looking (Introducing the Vossen HF-1)
Last edited by a moderator:
18'' for best range. I just popped off my shipped tires and mounted my snow tires on the Aero rims. I'll worry about a second set of rims in May.
The ones that shipped with mine in December are M&S rated so technically legal in the mountains in CO but a tire rated for 3-Mountain Snowflake is definitely a superior choice.
Lee Schwab sold me the Toyo Obsverve Garit KX for $1095 mounted.
All season tires most definitely do exist and are not just marketing hype. I've driven an Audi with all season tires for the past 15 years in Colorado winters (with dozens of trips into the mountains) and never once been in an accident.
All season tires are fine so long as you understand the limits of the tires. Winter tires are better, sure, but they're not absolutely necessary. Especially for anyone on the front range who will likely be driving on dry roads more often than not during the winter.
SunCharged
Member
All season tires perform okay in most conditions but I wouldn’t consider them to be great in either cold or warm conditions. They are okay at everything but not good/great at anything.
OK, I'm going to sound like a wuss here, but traction in ice/snow. I have a novel idea. SLOW DOWN. What, drive a car not to it's limits? Yep. If the road is ice/snow covered, maybe it isn't a good idea to do 50, or even 30 MPH
Sigh, go drive an old manual transmission 4x2 pickup in the snow for a while. Go drive a 1960 sedan that doesn't have limited slip in the snow (or even one with limited slip) Learn to SMOOTHLY move the throttle - SLOW acceleration (that means in all vectors - aka faster/slower and side to side)
Sigh, go drive an old manual transmission 4x2 pickup in the snow for a while. Go drive a 1960 sedan that doesn't have limited slip in the snow (or even one with limited slip) Learn to SMOOTHLY move the throttle - SLOW acceleration (that means in all vectors - aka faster/slower and side to side)
Didn't say not to have good tires, but relying on things like traction control is just asking for trouble. Trust me, I've had the rear kick out enough times on old trucks and cars.
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