What’s wrong with the car in snow? It’s better than my other cars and I drive in CO with RWD
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Winter driving advice, winter tire choices, etc.
- Thread starter Colgate2004
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What do you want, magic? It is about as sticky a car as physics allows. Can you tell me what the traction control SHOULD do that it doesn't?
I disagree. I think my AWD M3 is much worse than my old Subaru. There seem to be two reasons for this:
1) It send too much power to the rear axle, which breaks away before the traction control kicks in. The car should have a snow mode that sends more torque to the front motor. This is easy with electric motors.
2) The damn lousy snow tires that Tesla sold me.
Tires? Not exactly something that can be fixed by software, and almost all OEM tires suck in the snow, because they favor low rolling resistance (Buy a set of snow tires fixes THAT problem)
Front back balance? That they might be able to do, but as I have a RWD, would not know.
Have you tried putting the car in Chill in snow?
On my second winter in Alaska with LR AWD. It is rear bias, not terrible, just not the best and could be better. The rear slips slightly out, then the front kick in and it sort of wobbles. The first month or so last winter was uneasy but now I’ve gotten used to it. Although it is funny when a buddy does a sudden white knuckle as a passenger with the initial slip. As for tires I’m running the best, Nokian Hakka 9’s. Been running Hakka’s on all our vehicles for years.
The dual motor m3 is 100% RWD until it decides it “needs” to engage the front motor which seems to be two situations.
1. Pressing the accelerator hard engaging both motors gives maximum acceleration
2. When it detects slip on the rear wheels.
The response to number 2 is far too slow and number 1 isn’t an option unless you are the only car on the road and have a lot of room for it to wander around the road until it finds its footing.
As Tesla has proven with track mode v2 it’s possible to set a 50/50 bias if they wanted to.
I’m running Hakka R3 which are the best non studded snow tires. It’s not the tires it’s the amount of torque being sent to only one axle. Chill mode makes no difference if you are at all competent modulating your right foot as chill mode doesn’t change the torque only make the input more gradual.
1. Pressing the accelerator hard engaging both motors gives maximum acceleration
2. When it detects slip on the rear wheels.
The response to number 2 is far too slow and number 1 isn’t an option unless you are the only car on the road and have a lot of room for it to wander around the road until it finds its footing.
As Tesla has proven with track mode v2 it’s possible to set a 50/50 bias if they wanted to.
I’m running Hakka R3 which are the best non studded snow tires. It’s not the tires it’s the amount of torque being sent to only one axle. Chill mode makes no difference if you are at all competent modulating your right foot as chill mode doesn’t change the torque only make the input more gradual.
Model Y now includes and off-road road mode that uses the front motor more. This shouldn't be an SUV/CUV feature, it should be an AWD feature also available to Model 3... anyone want to @Elon on Twitter??
Can confirm 1, but 2 is practically wrong. "Hard" is quite hard too, certainly nothing you'd see in normal cautious Winter driving.
At about 110 ft lbs (150 NM) on the rear, it starts to send additional torque to the front, which ends up being a very small percentage even then. At some point it sends more power to both as well.
Regarding #2, I recently drove a road in absolutely terrible condition, would've had a much better time with true AWD. Even with the rear constantly slipping, it would send at most... 5%? power to the front motor, and I had to mash it heavily to get that. It usually did nothing other than stability control on the rear. I genuinely feel ripped off on my AWD purchase now that I have the data. Not to mention I was pissed that my car had the capability to get through far more comfortably but isn't programmed to. But Model Y is. If the off-road feature doesn't make it to Model 3 by next winter, I think I'm done with Tesla as an AWD EV. Just give me the AWD capability that I paid for!
Can confirm 1, but 2 is practically wrong. "Hard" is quite hard too, certainly nothing you'd see in normal cautious Winter driving.
At about 110 ft lbs (150 NM) on the rear, it starts to send additional torque to the front, which ends up being a very small percentage even then. At some point it sends more power to both as well.
Regarding #2, I recently drove a road in absolutely terrible condition, would've had a much better time with true AWD. Even with the rear constantly slipping, it would send at most... 5%? power to the front motor, and I had to mash it heavily to get that. It usually did nothing other than stability control on the rear. I genuinely feel ripped off on my AWD purchase now that I have the data. Not to mention I was pissed that my car had the capability to get through far more comfortably but isn't programmed to. But Model Y is. If the off-road feature doesn't make it to Model 3 by next winter, I think I'm done with Tesla as an AWD EV. Just give me the AWD capability that I paid for!
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Totally agree with you on #2. #1 I can recreate if I’m on the road by myself. #2 is honestly more what Tesla is telling me. With new track mode v2 we known making the car AWD is possible if only Tesla wants to make the necessary software changes.
We first knew with dyno mode (it's about a 2/3 split IIRC), then Track Mode V2, now off-road mode in Model Y. So dang close, yet so far. Heck, it even uses only the front motor for reverse gear, so we knew from that if nothing else.
I should point out regen does use the front motor if it detects slip in the rear, to my surprise. This usage of the front motor is actually far, far more than it uses it for forward motion! It also uses it for regen at low speed navigation (e.g. parking lots) below 14mph.
That’s all awesome and I’m continually amazed at what the car can do and the technology involved and absolutely none of it helps you going up hill on an off cambered road that is snow covered.
We need the ability to have true AWD like Quattro. Having it as a mode we can enable to protect efficiency would be fine but need it as an option.
We need the ability to have true AWD like Quattro. Having it as a mode we can enable to protect efficiency would be fine but need it as an option.
None at all that I noticed, but that was before I had ScanMyTesla. No snow around to test now.
I think it does do more than people say though. It's not just a power limit, but seems to slightly delay and smooth out your inputs. This is actually somewhat helpful in really icy (not necessarily snowy) situations, because the rear breaks loose shockingly easy with the absolutely minimum and gentlest throttle applied. In Chill, it seems to not let the rear build up speed that aggressively on low traction surfaces.
We got snow in Denver today which gave me a chance to confirm that reverse really is using the front motor. I’m not sure why I doubted other than it would require different software for the sr+ and Lr RWD cars which I wasn’t sure they would do.
It is definitely using the front motor only in reverse. I didn’t get to go find an empty parking lot to try reverse donuts like I’m a RWD car but it was fun.
It is definitely using the front motor only in reverse. I didn’t get to go find an empty parking lot to try reverse donuts like I’m a RWD car but it was fun.
So it's time to put my factory All seasons back on and I am trying to decide between a second set of Aero Rims from Ebay for ~$1000 or just going with something cool looking for maybe $800ish? I'm going to leave the snow tires on the OEM rims since range in the winter is more important to me.
I'm also open to other aero type wheels as long as the fit the oem tires which are barely used (like 100 miles before my snow tires went on) and not more than $1200 for a set.
I'm also open to other aero type wheels as long as the fit the oem tires which are barely used (like 100 miles before my snow tires went on) and not more than $1200 for a set.
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I use the OEM Aeros for winter and went with a <20lb aftermarket wheel. I got these in 18” and put the OEM MXM4’s on for summer.
https://m.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...r=2019&autoModClar=Dual+Motor+All-Wheel+Drive
I like the look of the Aeros and the ~5% or more range they’re rumored to add (with the covers on).
I bought a second exact set within a month of ownership. Everything fits perfect, it’s OEM quality and specs, I’m very happy
android04
Active Member
These are the same efficiency and specs as the Aero wheels. They are a little bit lighter and the aero inserts are removable. Cost me around $900 USD total to get them shipped from Canada to the USA. New EV01 wheels revealed - Tesla Owners Online
birdsquared
Fan-man (too old to be a fanboi)
After extensive research, I decided on the CrossClimate+ all weather tires. They are almost as good as summer tires for dry conditions, have excellent wet road traction, are 3PMS rated, don't lose traction in the cold, and are "decent" winter tires, which should ensure you can drive safely (and slowly) when there is the occasional snow fall (which is exactly what we get here in southern B.C., too).
Living in an apartment, I didn't want to have a second set of wheels/tires to switch out every 6 months, and I was very happy with Nokian GR3 on my Prius (Nokian doesn't make all weather XL tires suited for the Tesla, which led to the research which led to the decision to get the CC+). I got my car in early March, and we had quite a few days under 7 Celsius, and I took the car up to the top of Mt. Seymour once before the pandemic shut the hill down(though the road was plowed).
I am confident that these tires with AWD will let me go and stop in all the conditions I am going to face, even with the occasional trip up to the local ski hills.
Face_Disguise
Member
Hi all - about to start shopping for winter tires (figure I'll get a slightly better price on them now, versus closer to winter, but maybe not). From reading through the forum, I am seeing that either the Michelin X-Ice 3 or Nokian Hakka R3 might be my best choice. I am confused about the sizing though. I plan to get 19" Replika R241 wheels - what size tires should I get? It looks like the Michelins come in 245/40/r19/98H and 245/45/r19/102H. Would both the 40 and 45 ratios work, or is one better than the other? What about the 98H vs 102H? Forgive my ignorance on the subject! Many thanks.
Nokian WRG4 now comes in 245/45/18 tires and are XL rated. I will likely get these to replace the stock tires come winter. I know I should get a dedicated winter setup but there is no room for me to do so currently.
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