Winter driving thoughts so far

[dumbass]

So driving from Chicago to Northfield MN at 78, with heat about 65. Supercharges in Madison (45), LaCrosse (15) and Rochester (30). Destination charge on household current back up to 50% in basement garage

Stops in Rochester (50), Mauston (40) and Rockford (15).

Probably could have skipped the last one.

Dry pavement temps in low 20’s.

Forgot to add, two passengers about 300lbs total

 

[Zaxxon]

Regen problem are related to RWD 3s and winter tires. There is something funky going with the traction control and the softness of the tires/thread.

Regen starts at "full" then backs off to half/quarter/none. Big big thread over the Canadian thread.

It's a bit annoying losing one-pedal driving but i am getting used to it.

Here's a quick video I made of this phenomenon. I'm hopeful that Tesla can tweak the behavior in an update, as the car drives much differently with regen largely sidelined. Pretty sure I've used my friction brakes more in the week I've had winter tires then I used in a typical month on all-seasons. And this has all been on good roads in nominal weather conditions.

 

[StealthP3D]

The car is a real energy hog when driving at 79 in the rain with the heater on. I think it was about 450wh/mile.

Would you consider an ICE car that got over 60 MPG a "real energy hog"?

 

[Zaxxon]

Would you consider an ICE car that got over 60 MPG a "real energy hog"?

Exactly. I find most people have never thought of consumption in Wh/mi until getting a Tesla, and have never thought to convert MPG to What/mi. Here's a comparison: (all numbers EPA combined rating)

2019 Chevy Bolt: 283
Tesla Model X: 362
2018 Toyota Prius: 648
2018 Chevy Malibu Hybrid: 733
2019 Honda Accord: 1,087
2018 Mazda 3: 1,087
2019 Toyota Highlander Hybrid: 1,203
2019 MINI Cooper Clubman: 1,248
2018 Ford F150 (small 2.7L engine): 1,604

 

[StealthP3D]

If one has AWD do we need to put regen in low?

I've been driving my P3D in a lot of snow storms lately and I haven't found the need to put it into low regen. What happens is the car detects the slippery surface and automatically reduces the max regen available. I'm not sure how persistent the limitation is (once it stops detecting slippage) but as long as it's slippery the max regen is pretty minimal.

That said, Tesla recommends putting it in low which is probably the safest thing to do because it prevents the situation where you are on a high traction surface long enough for the auto-regen limitation to expire and then hit a patch of ice. But if you are on packed snow and ice continuously, there probably isn't much, if any, difference between Low Regen and Standard.

 

[StealthP3D]

And does anyone know if there is an aftermarket steering wheel heater? Thats one feature I miss from the Leaf.

I haven't seen a heated steering wheel for the Model 3. But I've found the dash heater can heat the steering wheel up pretty quickly when pre-heating the car before you depart. In cold weather, I always preheat the cabin for 3-5 minutes while the car is still on shore power to reduce battery cycling. Once the steering wheel is warmed up, it stays pretty warm as long as your hands are on it. All bets are off if you have a regular problem with cold hands though.

 

[coleAK]

An update from up in Alaska. We’re coming off five days of pretty heavy snow. Today we got another almost foot that wasn’t in the forecast. One of the main service roads through Anchorage has a reputation for never getting plowed. I drove through today and it was 4 inches or more of packed and rutted out loose snow. They were pretty extreme conditions there were quite a few places where I was plowing snow even onto the hood. The traction control really struggled it was almost like 80 traction situation in a few places and it would just cut all my power a few times I almost came to a standstill. I will say though overall the model three did pretty well given it’s relatively small size Lowground clearance and relatively wide tires. The whole time I was white knuckled Worrying someone was going to run into me.

 

[StealthP3D]

An update from up in Alaska. We’re coming off five days of pretty heavy snow. Today we got another almost foot that wasn’t in the forecast. One of the main service roads through Anchorage has a reputation for never getting plowed. I drove through today and it was 4 inches or more of packed and rutted out loose snow. They were pretty extreme conditions there were quite a few places where I was plowing snow even onto the hood. The traction control really struggled it was almost like 80 traction situation in a few places and it would just cut all my power a few times I almost came to a standstill. I will say though overall the model three did pretty well given it’s relatively small size Lowground clearance and relatively wide tires. The whole time I was white knuckled Worrying someone was going to run into me.

A studded tire like your Hakka 9's are generally not the best in deep snow because studless tires can use a softer rubber compound that grips the snow better. Studs need a harder rubber so the studs have adequate retention and snow doesn't stick to the harder rubber as well.

 

[coleAK]

A studded tire like your Hakka 9's are generally not the best in deep snow because studless tires can use a softer rubber compound that grips the snow better. Studs need a harder rubber so the studs have adequate retention and snow doesn't stick to the harder rubber as well.

No offense but you have no idea what you are talking about. Compound isn’t nearly important in deep snow. Deep wide lugs help more in deep snow. That’s why many “Arctic trucks” run AT tires, and look at Hakkapeleta 44’s. And many “snow tires” are not good in deep snow because they favor more contact and microsiping to deal with ice. The Hakka 7 I have on my LC was known to be not great in deep snow due to narrow tread and large contact patch, a flaw they corrected with the Hakka 8.

Have you ever seen and touched the Hakka’s?
Finally nokian classify the Hakka R3 as “excellent grip” and the Hakka 9 as “extreme grip”. And to put the nail in this argument. The studless R3 and the Studded 9 are the same tread pattern and rubber compound.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

An update from up in Alaska. We’re coming off five days of pretty heavy snow. Today we got another almost foot that wasn’t in the forecast. One of the main service roads through Anchorage has a reputation for never getting plowed. I drove through today and it was 4 inches or more of packed and rutted out loose snow. They were pretty extreme conditions there were quite a few places where I was plowing snow even onto the hood. The traction control really struggled it was almost like 80 traction situation in a few places and it would just cut all my power a few times I almost came to a standstill. I will say though overall the model three did pretty well given it’s relatively small size Lowground clearance and relatively wide tires. The whole time I was white knuckled Worrying someone was going to run into me.

I kind of wonder if you still have your underbody aero panels intact, after that plowing exercise!

 

[StealthP3D]

Compound isn’t nearly important in deep snow. Deep wide lugs help more in deep snow.

I agree, intuitively one would think so. And it's a common misconception. Fresh snow crystals have thousands of tiny sharp edges and much of the traction in powder from a good winter tire is because the tire holds snow in the tread. Snow sticks to snow. A deep lug tire is designed to clear mud easily and is too coarse to hold snow as well as a finer pattern.

Finally nokian classify the Hakka R3 as “excellent grip” and the Hakka 9 as “extreme grip”.

True, because the Hakka 9 has studs they market it as "extreme grip". But the studs aren't going to help in deep powder. That's an overall traction rating for general marketing purposes and is not specific to deep snow.

And to put the nail in this argument. The studless R3 and the Studded 9 are the same tread pattern and rubber compound.

No, the R3 and the 9 use completely different rubber compounds. The 9 uses a new "eco-friendly" compound using canola oil and the R3 uses dual compound rubber with a harder rubber in the base structure for strength and support and a softer compound overlaid on the tread area. This compound is too soft for reliable stud retention on the Hakka 9. And the R3 has "Cryo Crystal 3 particles" distributed throughout the tread rubber compound.

But I can see your mind is made up and I don't care to argue with you. I only mention it to clear up some common misconceptions for those with an open mind. Studded tires are not the ultimate in deep powder unless the situation is compounded by an ice layer underneath and the tire is able to access it. In that case, the studded tire would likely be superior.

 

[coleAK]

I agree, intuitively one would think so. And it's a common misconception. Fresh snow crystals have thousands of tiny sharp edges and much of the traction in powder from a good winter tire is because the tire holds snow in the tread. Snow sticks to snow. A deep lug tire is designed to clear mud easily and is too coarse to hold snow as well as a finer pattern.



True, because the Hakka 9 has studs they market it as "extreme grip". But the studs aren't going to help in deep powder. That's an overall traction rating for general marketing purposes and is not specific to deep snow.



No, the R3 and the 9 use completely different rubber compounds. The 9 uses a new "eco-friendly" compound using canola oil and the R3 uses dual compound rubber with a harder rubber in the base structure for strength and support and a softer compound overlaid on the tread area. This compound is too soft for reliable stud retention on the Hakka 9. And the R3 has "Cryo Crystal 3 particles" distributed throughout the tread rubber compound.

But I can see your mind is made up and I don't care to argue with you. I only mention it to clear up some common misconceptions for those with an open mind. Studded tires are not the ultimate in deep powder unless the situation is compounded by an ice layer underneath and the tire is able to access it. In that case, the studded tire would likely be superior.

I never said studs were good in deep powder. So are you saying I should run AT’s? I’ve been driving for over 30 years in heavy winter conditions 7-8 months a year, daily, every winter. What I was saying is the car’s traction control seemed confused in the deep rutted out conditions.

 

[StealthP3D]

I never said studs were good in deep powder. So are you saying I should run AT’s? I’ve been driving for over 30 years in heavy winter conditions 7-8 months a year, daily, every winter. What I was saying is the car’s traction control seemed confused in the deep rutted out conditions.

I'm not saying that at all. All Terrain tires are not winter tires. In fact, I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do. Just sharing some info.

 

[coleAK]

I'm not saying that at all. All Terrain tires are not winter tires. In fact, I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do. Just sharing some info.

I was being sarcastic. And they don’t make an AT tire that would fit the model 3.