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Winter handling Subaru vs dual-motor model Y

Snow Drift

[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Feb 10, 2016
1,968
1,497
Long Island
Are there any videos showing the split when Off-Road Assist is enabled? That would be really interesting to see.
Not that I have found. Some roller tests exist and the fronts get more torque sooner.

good question. Seems like this would be a simple solution by adding a snow mode with the proper torque distribution to maximize traction in winter conditions. Even my Grand Cherokee has a snow mode.
Well, your GC is mostly just reducing throttle input, maybe more torque to the secondary axle, and preventing the traction control nannies from kicking in sooner. That exists on the MY with Off Road Mode and Slip Start.
Thanks, I know Bjorn, but I didn't watch in this detail. So at low power, M3/MY are RWD, and S/X are FWD? Sheesh, I like my Crosstrek more now.



Yeah, a simple F:R slider would help here. Or maybe a fixed 30:70 or whatever.
Well, RWD or FWD when cruising, but once there is slip or cornering, etc the secondary motor kicks on and the speed is a lot faster and more controlled than a mechanical differential. I have had Subarus for 19 years and I like the 3/Y in the snow/rain etc.

The M3P Track Mode allows that. You can set it to 20/80, 30/70, etc.
 
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masotime

Member
Sep 14, 2020
68
62
San Francisco
Well, your GC is mostly just reducing throttle input, maybe more torque to the secondary axle, and preventing the traction control nannies from kicking in sooner. That exists on the MY with Off Road Mode and Slip Start.

Do you happen to know what's the difference in behavior between off Road and Slip Start? Very interested to know.
 

srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
711
455
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
Do you happen to know what's the difference in behavior between off Road and Slip Start? Very interested to know.

@masotime as is often the case, this info can be found in the owner's manual:

  • Slip Start is designed to make it easier to dislodge Model Y when stuck in mud, snow, ice, etc. Turning on Slip Start allows the wheels to spin, making it possible to rock Model Y out of a situation in which the wheels are stuck.

  • Off-Road Assist is designed to provide overall improvements when driving off-road. In addition to allowing the wheels to spin, Off-Road Assist balances the torque between the front and rear motors to optimize traction. Off-Road Assist improves traction on rough and soft surfaces where one side of the vehicle may lose traction while the other side still has traction. When Off-Road Assist is on, the accelerator pedal provides more gradual torque, which is useful for crawling at low speeds (for example, over rocky surfaces). When enabled, OFF-ROAD displays on the touchscreen above the driving speed.
 
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masotime

Member
Sep 14, 2020
68
62
San Francisco
@masotime as is often the case, this info can be found in the owner's manual:

Thanks! I guess it's still unclear to me what's the difference between "allowing the wheels to spin" versus "balancing then torque between front and rear motors". Does this mean that Slip start doesn't balance the torque? Or that Off-road assist doesn't allow the wheels to spin?
 

srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
711
455
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
Thanks! I guess it's still unclear to me what's the difference between "allowing the wheels to spin" versus "balancing then torque between front and rear motors". Does this mean that Slip start doesn't balance the torque? Or that Off-road assist doesn't allow the wheels to spin?

@masotime the answer to both your questions is in the quoted blurb where it says "In addition to allowing the wheels to spin, Off-Road Assist balances the torque between the front and rear motors to optimize traction." In other words: both modes allow the wheels to spin, while only Off-Road Assist also balances the torque.
 
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masotime

Member
Sep 14, 2020
68
62
San Francisco
Ok that's interesting. I assumed that allowing the wheels to spin requires torque anyway, so if Slip start is spinning the wheels without "balancing the torque" I assume it's using torque in some non-balanced way?

Regardless it sounds like off-road assist is what you want to use in most circumstances, since it appears to subsume slip-start?
 

Snow Drift

[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Feb 10, 2016
1,968
1,497
Long Island
Ok that's interesting. I assumed that allowing the wheels to spin requires torque anyway, so if Slip start is spinning the wheels without "balancing the torque" I assume it's using torque in some non-balanced way?

Regardless it sounds like off-road assist is what you want to use in most circumstances, since it appears to subsume slip-start?
Slip Start is for one moment in time. As in, you are stuck when parked in deep mud/snow and just need to free yourself. SS will reduce the intervention of the traction control, and prevents power reduction, so that the wheels slip to gain traction (sometimes grit is needed, not control). This will continue to allow the car to determine which motor is active, could still be RWD if that works. This is similar to just about all cars that have a VDC/ESP off button.

Off Road Mode is for an extended period of time, especially driving off-pavement. ORM activates the front motor also, more frequently (or maybe the whole time?), plus reduces throttle input for crawling, and it may even induce braking to allow "side to side" traction.
 

Daks

Member
Oct 21, 2020
131
91
Anchorage, AK USA
Snow Drift - Now I need to try ORM just to see the difference. I don't have any real issues in the snow/ice in my Y compared to other AWD vehicles I have/have had... I do have studded winter tires that help a LOT. I have a few slippery streets that I may run it on in different modes just to see the difference. And I have one of those low end user situations of a steep snow/ice covered driveway, steep windy, banking, off canter turns where I see vehicles in the ditch often... The Y handles these fine.

I also agree it is hard to know just how good or bad one car handles vs. another - because we all expect different things and have different experiences. Almost anything handles better then my F350 in 2WD, even with studded snow tires.
 
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Snow Drift

[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Feb 10, 2016
1,968
1,497
Long Island
Snow Drift - Now I need to try ORM just to see the difference. I don't have any real issues in the snow/ice in my Y compared to other AWD vehicles I have/have had... I do have studded winter tires that help a LOT. I have a few slippery streets that I may run it on in different modes just to see the difference. And I have one of those low end user situations of a steep snow/ice covered driveway, steep windy, banking, off canter turns where I see vehicles in the ditch often... The Y handles these fine.

I also agree it is hard to know just how good or bad one car handles vs. another - because we all expect different things and have different experiences. Almost anything handles better then my F350 in 2WD, even with studded snow tires.
I have used ORM and I notice that the throttle is greatly reduced, requiring you to go deeper into the pedal than normal (they did this for rock crawling to reduce wheel spin). It definitely changes things.
 

Daks

Member
Oct 21, 2020
131
91
Anchorage, AK USA
I have used ORM and I notice that the throttle is greatly reduced, requiring you to go deeper into the pedal than normal (they did this for rock crawling to reduce wheel spin). It definitely changes things.
Yeah - it seems like leaving the car alone is good enough for me. If I get into a tight spot it seems like it may help. I've gotten pretty good at having a light foot though. Not even a fan of chill mode.
 

Snow Drift

[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Feb 10, 2016
1,968
1,497
Long Island
Yeah - it seems like leaving the car alone is good enough for me. If I get into a tight spot it seems like it may help. I've gotten pretty good at having a light foot though. Not even a fan of chill mode.
Agreed. I have never used Chill Mode. I just adjust the amount of pressure on the throttle and reduce steering inputs in low traction situations.

Slip Start is for starting off in deep snow, if normal mode doesn't work.

ORM is for doing silly things.

I would like Track Mode to manually adjust the torque distribution f:r.

But, again, normal mode works 99% of the time without issues.
 

Daks

Member
Oct 21, 2020
131
91
Anchorage, AK USA
Agreed. I have never used Chill Mode. I just adjust the amount of pressure on the throttle and reduce steering inputs in low traction situations.

Slip Start is for starting off in deep snow, if normal mode doesn't work.

ORM is for doing silly things.

I would like Track Mode to manually adjust the torque distribution f:r.

But, again, normal mode works 99% of the time without issues.
inergen makes a plug in module and you can control tq split with it. However, It's probably a warranty voiding thing. Even though it's "removeable" - FWIW, it's the same company that can give you either 50HP or all of the performance upgrade on the Y without going through Tesla. Just in case you REALLY wanted it.

IF it was an issue I'd consider it. But it just hasn't been an issue.
 

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