It was light snow coming down and moderately snowy roads. Not icy. I should have been able to go 50 mph without a problem like other cars passing me. Just didn't feel good enough to get to that speed.
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Winter handling Subaru vs dual-motor model Y
- Thread starter Mvdaog
- Start date
It was light snow coming down and moderately snowy roads. Not icy. I should have been able to go 50 mph without a problem like other cars passing me. Just didn't feel good enough to get to that speed.
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Were you lifting like an ICE or just adjusting your amount of pressure on the accelerator when you said "let off the pedal on the highway?" Your foot almost never leaves the accelerator pedal when driving a Tesla (one-foot driving). You should only be lifting to exit the car, parked or when you have an emergency situation requiring you to use the brake pedal. You don't really use the brake pedal on the highway (especially in snow, which can cause lock up).
Do you also have on the stock all-seasons?
This car has a lot more power than your BMW or A4 going to the rear axel. Especially if as Bjorn is showing, it is RWD until slip/condition. You have to adjust for a different type of car.
The ability manually adjust torque split with Track Mode would make the car even better.
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Srad600Volt
Member
In my experience, the light fluffy stuff can be more “slippery” than packed down snow, so that could be a factor. It’s also harder to see obstacles in that stuff, so you have to be prepared to let the car “float”. On my trip, the snow/ice was all well traveled on, so hard packed and salted. Higher speeds also play a factor, I was traveling at max 40mph due to conditions. The same amount of slip at 40 vs +50 could make for a big difference in feel/comfort. Then you add in the personal feel which also can account for much. I’ve ridden motorcycles and driven off road and in snowy conditions most of my life, so I’m used to gauging traction by the amount of slip I feel. So a small amount to slip doesn’t bother me as much as it would bother someone not used to that. Maybe we should get the hashtag #TeslaSnowMode trending...Ha
TLDR its not the torque or the tires. Its the regen braking and possibly also the TCS.
I'm aware of how the car drives. And no it didn't have that much more power than the BMW I had which was modified. That car had conticontact AS. My model Y has stock all seasons. Regardless, again, if you are barely pressing the pedal, you are not engaging high torque and power. The power delivery is modulated like in every car. It has instant torque available but you don't have to use it. The torque is not the issue. When you ease off the pedal to slow down, the regen kicks in. When I didn't have off road mode on, this causes the car to fishtail badly and repeatedly. To me it was obvious the automatic application of the regen braking was causing the slip. It's much better with off road mode on but still not as good as my past vehicles. I was driving as carefully as humanly possible because the model Y felt like sh*t in those conditions until I engaged off road. There is no doubt in my mind they can use software to fix the issue. But as of now the snow driving is lacking
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I live in Ottawa and have been on snow covered slippery, snotty roads for the past few days (toyo celcius all weather 19") as I go cross country skiing in the hills. My last car was a 2015 nissan pathfinder. It took me a bit to get used to the MY on twisty, slippery roads but now I don't find it bad at all. This thread actually helped me quite a bit. Once I switched to the mindset that it was RWD bias I got used to the lack of understeer on corners going downhill. The rear slips a bit but the steering is true. I'm not seeing a strong regen at all in low temps. There is regen but nothing like warm temps.
Not related but dog mode is the best for xcountry skiing. Where I go there isn't cell phone range, so I can't stop and precondition the car. I leave the car on dog mode, ski for 1-2 hrs and come back to a car that's nice and warm. As my kids would say, Poggers.
Not related but dog mode is the best for xcountry skiing. Where I go there isn't cell phone range, so I can't stop and precondition the car. I leave the car on dog mode, ski for 1-2 hrs and come back to a car that's nice and warm. As my kids would say, Poggers.
Born and raised in CA, zero snow. Moved to CO and learned to drive on snow. 2003 Murano was a beast in the snow with allSeasons(kids still talk about how great it was), X5 5.0 with snows is quite good. I was planning to put snows on the MY and selling the X5. After a couple of drives on twisty snow covered road in the MY, the X5 is staying! Lectures about learning how to drive the MY in the snow is neither warranted nor appreciated. If Tesla want to be taken seriously as a car company, they need to act like one. Safety cannot be sacrificed to sooth EM's ego.
Plus 1 for snow mode. Heck, we're loaded the cameras, so why not make some changes or suggestions based on the observed conditions.
Plus 1 for snow mode. Heck, we're loaded the cameras, so why not make some changes or suggestions based on the observed conditions.
Watch out, nut hugger comments incoming looking to put the blame anywhere but Tesla .. YoU mUsT bE dRiVinG iT wRoNg
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Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
You are praising a FWD biased Murano that almost never sends power to the rear, and a BMW that uses a dinky chain to send power to the front axel. Both are compromised systems.
Does putting it in off road mode help? Or is it not advised to drive around in off road. I just got winters installed on my MYP and had a great trial run on my way home. Looking to set up “snow” mode and wondering if including off-road helps. I’m coming from an Audi all road which was the best car I’ve had in the snow including my Jeep.
LevelHeaded
Member
Given that it’s basically an identical powertrain to the M3 which has been in customer hands for several years at this point, did anyone who’s having a negative winter experience start there first for info/analysis/changes to the experience over time?
Those of you correctly pointing out that power and torque are modulated by accelerator position, yet identifying undesired regen as the culprit, seem to be forgetting that the intensity of regen is also modulated by accelerator position...
Those of you correctly pointing out that power and torque are modulated by accelerator position, yet identifying undesired regen as the culprit, seem to be forgetting that the intensity of regen is also modulated by accelerator position...
I’ve been playing around a lot with off road mode. It’s drives entirely different. It feels like it’s not near as rwd biased. Does anyone have the app that bjorn uses on YouTube to see if off road puts the car into AWD? The only thing I’m uneasy about is that it also turns traction control off which is a safety hazard. So it’s hard to know in real life conditions what would actually be safer - awd without traction control and not slipping nearly as much, or rwd with traction control?
I have driven AWD vehicles for 30 years, here is my ranking of all the cars I've driven for snow traction (all with Winter tires):
1) Mitsubishi Evo 9 - Last of the true mechanical AWD systems, mechanical LSD front and rear, electronic variable locking center. 100% predictable, completely unstoppable except for ground clearance.
2) Subaru STI - Very similar in terms of performance to the Mitsubishi, but a little less predictable (note that these first 2 are arguably the best AWD systems ever found on cars, with some early quattro designs being close)
2) Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX - VC center and rear, aftermarket mechanical LSD front. Great performance until the VCs wore out, which happens pretty fast and then the car wasn't as predictable anymore.
3) Ford Bronco - old version. Manually lockable AWD. Probably the most reliable and very predictable. More a truck than a car though. This is 4WD not AWD.
4) Subaru WRX - VC center, equal length half shafts. Quite predictable, and the traction control isn't super intrusive.
5) Honda Pilot Elite - Torque Vectoring AWD. Still feels very reactive to me, but it does catch skids and rotations better than any open front/rear diff system. It does have fantastic ground clearance.
6) M3P - It's VERY slow to react to slip and rotation, and if there is enough rotation present it does not correct and the car spins. It does a good job off the line, but turning of any kind in snow is its Achilles heel. Pretty much no ground clearance. This could be so much better with better programming.
100) Audi S4 - Torsen center diff, electronic brake open front and rear (modern quattro). Traction control is terrible, car will just stop dead with no traction. With traction control off the car will spin so easily it's a death trap. Modern quattro is absolute garbage.
1) Mitsubishi Evo 9 - Last of the true mechanical AWD systems, mechanical LSD front and rear, electronic variable locking center. 100% predictable, completely unstoppable except for ground clearance.
2) Subaru STI - Very similar in terms of performance to the Mitsubishi, but a little less predictable (note that these first 2 are arguably the best AWD systems ever found on cars, with some early quattro designs being close)
2) Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX - VC center and rear, aftermarket mechanical LSD front. Great performance until the VCs wore out, which happens pretty fast and then the car wasn't as predictable anymore.
3) Ford Bronco - old version. Manually lockable AWD. Probably the most reliable and very predictable. More a truck than a car though. This is 4WD not AWD.
4) Subaru WRX - VC center, equal length half shafts. Quite predictable, and the traction control isn't super intrusive.
5) Honda Pilot Elite - Torque Vectoring AWD. Still feels very reactive to me, but it does catch skids and rotations better than any open front/rear diff system. It does have fantastic ground clearance.
6) M3P - It's VERY slow to react to slip and rotation, and if there is enough rotation present it does not correct and the car spins. It does a good job off the line, but turning of any kind in snow is its Achilles heel. Pretty much no ground clearance. This could be so much better with better programming.
100) Audi S4 - Torsen center diff, electronic brake open front and rear (modern quattro). Traction control is terrible, car will just stop dead with no traction. With traction control off the car will spin so easily it's a death trap. Modern quattro is absolute garbage.
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Midnightsun
Active Member
Just going by the 6 pages of comments here Elon needs to take note and integrate a snow mode on the Y. HELLO ELON?
You'd probably have better luck posting in any threads related to Trax or games, seeing how recent updates seem to be more focused on those aspects lately and not the actual car...
There are some experts in AWD systems responding in this thread, so let me pose 2 questions.
1) Has Tesla produced a world class winter driving experience in the Model 3/Y?
My answer to 1 is no, so that leads to question 2.
2) Is there any reason that, with the compute power and motor technology available in the Model 3/Y should not world class at winter driving? (ie, weight, stiff suspension etc)
1) Has Tesla produced a world class winter driving experience in the Model 3/Y?
My answer to 1 is no, so that leads to question 2.
2) Is there any reason that, with the compute power and motor technology available in the Model 3/Y should not world class at winter driving? (ie, weight, stiff suspension etc)
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
I've certainly experienced this unnecessary slippage due to rear-bias with my 2018 Model 3 and now not looking forward to it with my Model Y. I've tried tweeting at Elon over the years (referencing various threads here) but it's just lost in the noise:
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I got my MY in July and have driven through a couple of Minneapolis snow storms with it now, coming from an Audi A4, both with all season tires. The A4 was an awesome car in the snow - very sure-footed and predictable as long as you weren't stupid. I have noticed the rear end of my MY fishtailing a bit more but it's hard for me to gauge because the first snow storm was sleet followed by 6+ inches of snow meaning there was a layer of ice underneath. I've primarily noticed it on turns, often when I'm not accelerating at all. This tells me it has more to do with weight and tire traction than power distribution. I've never had an issue keeping it under control; every time it's skidded or fishtailed it corrected quickly and predictably. In terms of traction, starting, I've never had an issue starting.
In my experience, the regenerative braking at cold temperatures is minimal; since the temps dropped below freezing it's rare that the regenerative braking would be enough to play a significant roll.
It summary, I'm still learning but I've found my MY to be at least reasonable in the snow.
In my experience, the regenerative braking at cold temperatures is minimal; since the temps dropped below freezing it's rare that the regenerative braking would be enough to play a significant roll.
It summary, I'm still learning but I've found my MY to be at least reasonable in the snow.
Another one. And accelerator position is determined by the fact that some idiot in front of you is texting, or stopping for whatever reason. WHEN you HAVE to slow down, you let off the pedal as little as possible.. as you know that's how its done in a tesla. In snowy conditions in the model y, doing that causes some fishtailing if not on off road mode. That needs to be fixed. The best part is that could happen in an update next week, who knows. But I think it will sooner than later
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
I’ll just say that old/current STI is a true mechanical AWD system. Evo had a very good system, but STI is/was better for grip (Evo was better at controlled slip). Meaning more easy to hoon with rear out, but technically slower on snow bc of that extra fun.
STI (all mechanical)
Helical front differential
Planetary gear center differential
TorSen rear differential
You may be thinking about DCCD using electromagnetic or electrically actuated plates to slow the planetary gears (to move torque to the front up to 50:50 from 41:59 on newer models). But again, this is not an eDiff or anything like that.
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