I second this, the worst case in a Toronto area winter is around a 40% loss when it's consistently below -20C daytime highs. I'm sure Philly is usually not quite that cold.
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Winter range anxiety
- Thread starter Langhorne
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- Model S Range Anxiety
I second this, the worst case in a Toronto area winter is around a 40% loss when it's consistently below -20C daytime highs. I'm sure Philly is usually not quite that cold.
A caveat about this (and other posts): initial heating (both cabin and pack) uses a huge amount of power. But once you reach the desired temperature (both cabin and pack), heater power consumption can drop by nearly an order of magnitude. So it's important to make the distinction. If you're not going a great distance, you may never see the heat ramp down and your average energy consumption (and range estimates) over the winter will be awful. But if you go a long distance, that initial terrible energy consumption is not likely to last, and your total range not vastly reduced. Unless you're crunching through deep snow or accumulated packed ice or whatnot.
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Does your 75 have the new drive unit/hardware?
Since it was just introduced in July. I’m super curious to see how it performs in this first winter for those with this new drive unit. I’m sure that will make a difference. I haven’t taken delivery of my 75D yet and I’m in Chicago and we get cold winters too, so again I can’t wait to see how new drive unit performs.
Since it was just introduced in July. I’m super curious to see how it performs in this first winter for those with this new drive unit. I’m sure that will make a difference. I haven’t taken delivery of my 75D yet and I’m in Chicago and we get cold winters too, so again I can’t wait to see how new drive unit performs.
You cut out the part of my post that talked about this. But yes, I agree. I don't find that snow reduces my range at all (in fact, if its warm enough to snow I count myself lucky!).
This will be my first winter with my S75 and I must admit I am starting to develop a bit of preemptive range anxiety!
- I live outside the Philadelphia PA area, so we will see a decent winter/cold spell.
- I charge my S75 to ~80% and start everyday with about 210 rated miles
- i drive about 130 miles per day on weekdays. I have to crawl through the PA turnpike traffic much of the commute, but do find myself driving...enthusiastically when traffic permits, so I typically end up with about 50 miles left at the end of the day
So, given the negative impact of temperature to the battery capacity/range, do you guys think I will lose >50 miles of range when temps drop to the 20's and 30's? If so I may have to start charging to 90 or even 100% during the dead of winter...which isn't ideal.
I did get the winter package in the hopes that heated steering wheels will help cut down on using the heater. And I remember reading about trying to keep the batteries warm by scheduling the charging to the morning (we don't have lower rates for charging at night with our provider PECO, so I don't use scheduling at all right now).
Any other tips? Besides driving slower??
I have to admit, after reading your post I'm having a little anxiety about my 75D scheduled to be delivered in the next few days. I have a 120 mile round trip commute (65-70mph highway for 95% of the drive) with no available charging during the day. The range was the only reason I considered the 100D but I elected not to get it as I couldn't justify the price bump. Someone reassure me? Please?
Answer this question: Do you have or are capable or can afford an extra $20K? If you can’t justify the price, then you can’t justify the price and will make due with a 75D. Still not a bad choice. I’m getting a 75D and the winter in Chicago can be pretty cold.
At 120 round trip. You will be more than okay. Especially more so with the new drive unit. On top of that the Supercharger Network will continue to grow and especially the new urban chargers will help a lot too.
I owned an 2014 85 RWD and always charged to 90% which after 80k miles gave me 230 rated miles of range. On cold days < 20 degrees during my 80 mile round trip in stop and go I95 traffic, I'd crank the heat to 75 and typically get home with 120 miles of range remaining. So 1.375 of rated range for every mile traveled. 130 miles round trip will use -180 rated miles in these conditions so no problems with range!
As for charging to 90%, did it since day one and after 80k miles, still got to 230 miles at 90% and 255 miles at 100%.
Bottom line - don't worry. Enjoy the car. It's awesome.
As for charging to 90%, did it since day one and after 80k miles, still got to 230 miles at 90% and 255 miles at 100%.
Bottom line - don't worry. Enjoy the car. It's awesome.
Thanks for the reassurance.
As for the answer to the have/capable/afford question- yes/yes/yes. I chose not to bump up because I figured the extra range would only save me about 3-4 hours per year in charging time at superchargers spread out over several long distance trips and I didn't think it was worth the extra money. That being said- I didn't think the cold weather range drop would be quite as drastic as some have suggested and therefore didn't weigh that as heavily in the decision, leading to my anxiety ("Oh no, I've made a terrible mistake....) and the post.
But it sounds like it'll be fine. Back to waiting, sometimes patiently.
I was really looking forward to getting a new sc at KOP, but it doesn't even show up on supercharge.info, so I assume they dont even have permits done. Might as well have been one of Elon's tweets - I don't think it is coming until next year.
IdaX
Member
Won't help the OP, but would it be smart to go to "Max battery power" on a P model an hour before leaving to preheat the battery pack directly? While plugged in still of course...
Preheat the car while it is plugged in before you leave. Dont overdue the HVAC heating while driving, use the seat heaters instead. You'll be fine. I dont see more than 20-30% range loss on the worst days.
Even though your garage isn't heated, it's still gonna be warmer than what's outside so ever degree helps. I wouldn't sweat it too much (no pun intended)
Even though your garage isn't heated, it's still gonna be warmer than what's outside so ever degree helps. I wouldn't sweat it too much (no pun intended)
Saimaannorppa
Member
If you charge in the garage, charging losses turn into heat in your garage as well. I see 1 celsius degree rise in temperature in a well insulated small garage over night, after charging just 40 km, and no other heating at the moment.
Check if you can improve the insulation of the garage. Do not forget ventilation though, relative humidity shouldn't be over 45% for prolonged periods. I use a condensing dehumifier, which actually works as a heat pump as well and generates more heat than used electricity while dehumifying.
Check if you can improve the insulation of the garage. Do not forget ventilation though, relative humidity shouldn't be over 45% for prolonged periods. I use a condensing dehumifier, which actually works as a heat pump as well and generates more heat than used electricity while dehumifying.
I have to say that the cold weather performance of the car is one of the biggest surprises I've had. When the battery is cold, output AND input is limited. You won't get full power on acceleration, and you also have limited charging capability. So regen is limited, for instance, but so is the rate at which you can charge from the wall and even at a supercharger! Not until the battery is warm do things go back to normal. All the advice about seat warmers, etc. is all good, but I think the biggest difference is made by having charging finish as close as possible to when you're going to depart. Also, use the app to preheat the cabin while still plugged in. All that pack warming using a ton of power that can come from the wall when plugged in.
Power consumption in cold weather can be ridiculous. I got about 250 kw/mile during the summer around town. In subfreezing weather that could easily be 350-400 for the day. That's crazy, but I'm just driving normal and using the heater, etc.
Being conservative, however, and starting with the 75 really being like a 70 and taking 80% of that you get 56 kWh available for your commute. If your commute is 130 miles, then as long as you keep it under 431 kw/mi you'll be fine. That should be totally doable, and that's assuming you charge to 90% and get home with 10%.
Power consumption in cold weather can be ridiculous. I got about 250 kw/mile during the summer around town. In subfreezing weather that could easily be 350-400 for the day. That's crazy, but I'm just driving normal and using the heater, etc.
Being conservative, however, and starting with the 75 really being like a 70 and taking 80% of that you get 56 kWh available for your commute. If your commute is 130 miles, then as long as you keep it under 431 kw/mi you'll be fine. That should be totally doable, and that's assuming you charge to 90% and get home with 10%.
I went back to my emails to check the exact dates - the car went into production on June 5th and I took delivery on June 16th.
IIRC, the new DU's were added late June - mine was early June production. I was a little disappointed, but I am not bitter about it or anything. I got what I signed for.
I have read numerous versions of "this mustang pulled up next to me at a red light and revved his engine, and i left him in the dust when the light turned green" stories. I'll probably wish i had the new DU if the said stang leaves me in the dust someday
VTengineer
Member
I think I win with the daily commute distance : 190 round trip. 75D here. Live in central Vermont. I've been charging to 90% and getting appx 211 range. I've only had the car for three + weeks now but have figured out a system. SC on my direct route, 1 mile off highway, 50 miles into trip. Only have 110V charging at home (so far).
So, leave the house with appx 50% battery. Get to SC with appx 30%. Charge to 90% w/i 1/2 and hr. Off to work and arrive with 75%.
Leave for home with 75%. Have been amazed but reach home with 35%. Plug in for appx 10 hrs and leave the next morning with 50% again.
Temps have not been below high 40's so far in the morning. Last three days it was 90 in mid afternoon !!!
My garage is under the house, usually not below 45 degrees even at -20 outside. have a modine hanging in it as well so cal be heated to ? I may have the opportunity to plug in at work at 110V so that will help. I have been averaging 265-275 kWh. Not driving ultra conservatively but I set cruise the minute I'm on the interstate, which is 20 miles from home and can pretty much maintain it the whole trip.
We'll see what winter brings. Sorry for the long winded post. I'm new to this game.
Oh, and I kept my 2013 "dieselgate" golf as an alternate, which is now "fixed", whatever that means and VW paid me almost $7K along the way as their penalty. I call it my lottery car.
Now, who wants to talk snow tires ?!?!??
So, leave the house with appx 50% battery. Get to SC with appx 30%. Charge to 90% w/i 1/2 and hr. Off to work and arrive with 75%.
Leave for home with 75%. Have been amazed but reach home with 35%. Plug in for appx 10 hrs and leave the next morning with 50% again.
Temps have not been below high 40's so far in the morning. Last three days it was 90 in mid afternoon !!!
My garage is under the house, usually not below 45 degrees even at -20 outside. have a modine hanging in it as well so cal be heated to ? I may have the opportunity to plug in at work at 110V so that will help. I have been averaging 265-275 kWh. Not driving ultra conservatively but I set cruise the minute I'm on the interstate, which is 20 miles from home and can pretty much maintain it the whole trip.
We'll see what winter brings. Sorry for the long winded post. I'm new to this game.
Oh, and I kept my 2013 "dieselgate" golf as an alternate, which is now "fixed", whatever that means and VW paid me almost $7K along the way as their penalty. I call it my lottery car.
Now, who wants to talk snow tires ?!?!??
One of the joys of driving electric is not having to stop to fuel up since you charge at home overnight. Most people ask about the range as if they travel 500 miles or more often. But when I ask them when was the last time they drove such a distance, most can't remember. Stopping once on a road trip to SC, hit the bathroom and grab some food works wonderfully. Doing it everyday will get tiresome. Any reason you haven't installed a 50A 240v outlet at your home?
As for winter tires, I loved my Michelin IceX on my S85. Did great in Southern VT winters. Now I have an S100D but will still swap to the winter tires just to be safe. I have them on their own Tesla rims which makes swapping very easy.
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