For what it's worth, I drove my Model S (Tesla Pirelli winter package) and Bhuwan's (Hakka R2's) on the same route, back to back, and the Hakka's were clearly better. There was also a fair amount of difference between the (Tesla) all season's that another Model S on that same route that day had compared to even the Pirelli's. Should help put to rest any doubts between the tires ...
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Winter tire recommendations
- Thread starter colinb
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
William13
Active Member
There is a very good comparison of winter tires by a European online magazine in PDF that I read linked from Marathon tire in Michigan. I am too computer iliterate too give the link but it was in English and scored multiple brands better than any other review I have seen.
Please someone find and post link for everyone.
Please someone find and post link for everyone.
This one is not european (canadian, in fact), but is current and rather thorough, in table form (click on the table for a larger format).
1. Top winter tires for cars -2013.
2. Top performance winter tires for cars - 2013.
I hope this helps. Last year it (and some other reviews) sold me on the Hakka 7s (non-studded), and they are performing very well on both snow and ice.
And canadians do know their winters...
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
The #1 list was interesting. The Nokian Hakka 7 was at the top and the Hakka R2 second. What I found interesting was that the studded Hakka 7 was better on snow, but worse on ice than the R2.
The differences were small, and the the overall difference in the Hakka scores was only 0.1 with totals in the 9's.
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
Erm, come again. Ice traction scores are: Hakka 7 (non-studded) 9.2, Hakka R2 9.4, Hakka 7 (studded) 9.5. So it was better on ice. On snow both Hakka 7's had 9.5 and R2 has 9.1. So both on snow and on ice the studded Hakka 7 wins flat out. And from what I understood from Nokian website the Hakka 8 is even better 
Thanks very much for this! - I've been trying to build my own list based on all of the feedback in this forum but these charts help me to assess the pros and cons of the different tires. The difficulty in a place like Calgary (and of course many other cities) is that our weather has extreme variations from relatively dry to deep snow, slush, frozen slush, ice, rain, hail.... also extremes of temperatures all of which can happen in any given month from September to May (yes we have had blizzards in May - trying to remember why I live here now). Anyway, I don't think I've ever had studded here and I'm currently using Blizzaks with my AWD Infiniti. I haven't literally counted the various recommendations from these forums but my impression is that the Nokian Hakkapelitas probably get the most kudos (R2s seem dominant), studded/non-studded depending on local conditions and laws. After that there are a bunch of different tires but the Michelin Xice Xis and the Blizzak WS70 tires seem to be high runners. I don't think I've heard anyone say anything positive about the Pirellis from Tesla. For my part, I'm not sure how easy it will be to get the Hakkas locally (particularly by the end of Feb) but the Michelins and Blizzaks both look like pretty good alternatives. Not sure if other Canadians have tried Tirerack (what is the delivery situation) but I'm also very interested in the Rial Luganos that don't seem to be available locally either.
Erm, come again. Ice traction scores are: Hakka 7 (non-studded) 9.2, Hakka R2 9.4, Hakka 7 (studded) 9.5. So it was better on ice. On snow both Hakka 7's had 9.5 and R2 has 9.1. So both on snow and on ice the studded Hakka 7 wins flat out. And from what I understood from Nokian website the Hakka 8 is even better
Just bear in mind that when the pavement is dry or wet, studs hurt rather than help. Also studs, when run on pavement, create a higher incidence of lung cancer in areas where they are heavily used. (This is why studless tires were first invented).
Also is there a practical difference when the scale difference is less than one?
In North America, the vast majority of the winter driving is done on dry or wet roads with only a small percentage done on snow, packed snow, or ice.
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
Well the new Hakka 8's have a more hidden stud design so that on dry/wet roads the use of studs is reduced significantly. Discounting this freak of a winter, then in Estonia majority of winter driving is done on snow and ice and while the average test might be close call on standard ice (I think they test on lake ice or so), the difference on black ice and watered ice (i.e. there's a thin or thick layer of water on the ice) is significant as studless tires have almost no surface to grip on as they rely 100% on micro level inequalities on ice surface while studs create the resistance area by destroying the ice surface. As this is relatively common here I prefer to drive on studs providing me with grip in those extreme conditions to at least maneuver the car even if stopping is going to be hard.
Peter_M
Member
I've ordered from Tirerack 3 times (wheels and tires each time) and been happy every time. They pack them very well and they will be inflated and ready to put on your car. Delivery time is about 3 business days to Ottawa, so maybe 4 to Calgary.
I bought the GunMetal Rials with Blizzak Tires and they came perfect mounted, balanced, properly inflated with installed TPMS. They also sent black lug nuts and an adapter (21mm). Everything installed perfect and tpms works great. The Tires perform flawlessly in Rochester NY snow and ice. Very Impressed. I sold my 21 inch wheels and plan on just getting a second set of Rial maybe in Silver with Michelin Primacy tires in March or April.
I think our differences stem more from Europe vs. North America than anything else. Europe is much further north than the populated part of North America. For example Poland is about the same latitude as Hudson's Bay. So in your climate the roads really are covered with snow and ice for several months. In North America (even in Canada) snow covered roads are for a few days only a couple of times a year. There are exceptions of course but they're exceptions.
I've heard this mentioned before (probably by you
). Is there anything afoot to address that? Use a different material?> Europe is much further north than the populated part of North America. For example Poland is about the same latitude as Hudson's Bay. [jerry33]
However the Gulf Stream warms them making things more or less equal. Until you get into Russia where invading armies have gotten into deep trouble assuming this warming would continue as they proceeded eastward.
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However the Gulf Stream warms them making things more or less equal. Until you get into Russia where invading armies have gotten into deep trouble assuming this warming would continue as they proceeded eastward.
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mnx
2018 M3P
These past couple weeks seems to be one of those exceptions. In parking lots and some roads, there's a thick layer of ice/snow that's packed down. Quite slippery even with snow tires, although it would have to be like this for weeks and weeks for studs to even be a consideration.
I've heard this mentioned before (probably by you
There isn't a lot that can be done because the studs chip minute particles from the aggregate. Even if the pavement is asphalt, there is still aggregate embedded in the asphalt to chip.
The reason that studs work is that they dig through the film of water that covers the ice which allows the studs to scratch on the ice. Drivers who spin their tires (even though they shouldn't) create the perfect condition for studs by melting a bit of the ice. Modern studless tires like Hakka R2 and X Ice i3 are very close to the best studded tires (and better than the average studded tire). They are also far better than any studded tires in every other condition. Studs don't help in snow at all, only on ice and only if the ice is covered with a film of water.
William13
Active Member
Go to the marathon automotive web site and their PDF link to Finnish magazine winter tire review. Sorry I don't know how to make link.
Hi,
I'm wondering if it might be worth conducting a new poll as this one is over a year old and only has a couple of options. We could make the poll only
relative to snow tires in regions where real (non performance) snow tires are required and ask what tires people would buy if they had to buy a new set
or what type of tires they are using now that they would buy again. I guess we could exclude regions where studded tires are required? I'm not trying to
discriminate but the poll is probably most useful if it concentrates on particular conditions - i.e. for many of us we have a combination of snow/ice/wet/dry and
the trick is to find a tire that is good enough for the more severe conditions but which is as safe as possible when conditions are dry/wet. It seems for some of
our Northern European or Scandinavian members a studded tire (probably a Nokian Hakkapeliitta) is possibly a given. Anyway possible selections:
Michelin X-Ice Xi3
Dunlop SP Ice/Winter Sport 3D tires
Continental ContiViking Contact 5
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice
Bridgestone Blizzak WS70
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s
Nokian Studded
Other?
I'm wondering if it might be worth conducting a new poll as this one is over a year old and only has a couple of options. We could make the poll only
relative to snow tires in regions where real (non performance) snow tires are required and ask what tires people would buy if they had to buy a new set
or what type of tires they are using now that they would buy again. I guess we could exclude regions where studded tires are required? I'm not trying to
discriminate but the poll is probably most useful if it concentrates on particular conditions - i.e. for many of us we have a combination of snow/ice/wet/dry and
the trick is to find a tire that is good enough for the more severe conditions but which is as safe as possible when conditions are dry/wet. It seems for some of
our Northern European or Scandinavian members a studded tire (probably a Nokian Hakkapeliitta) is possibly a given. Anyway possible selections:
Michelin X-Ice Xi3
Dunlop SP Ice/Winter Sport 3D tires
Continental ContiViking Contact 5
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice
Bridgestone Blizzak WS70
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s
Nokian Studded
Other?
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8
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funny that the US did just borrow our normal winter conditions.., now you understand why we talk about studded tires all the time? ;-)
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stud and lung cancer is a bit BS. they have found the same particles in spain. Oh and in must greater numbers... studded tires in spain? probably more related to the sahara desert?
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funny that the US did just borrow our normal winter conditions.., now you understand why we talk about studded tires all the time? ;-)
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stud and lung cancer is a bit BS. they have found the same particles in spain. Oh and in must greater numbers... studded tires in spain? probably more related to the sahara desert?
The correlation first came from Japan when the Ministry of Health did research to find out why the rate of lung cancer was higher in Hokkaido (the northern-most large Japanese island) compared to the rest of Japan. No BS about it.
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