Winter wheel/tire package questions

[redox]

Hello everyone,

I have one of the very first P85D with a staggered tire setup, 21’ wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 (Performance Summer), 245/35ZR21 front & 265/35ZR21 back.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and these tires are great for most of the year here.
However, I’m contemplating a trip to Tahoe this winter so I’m considering buying some winter/snow tires.

So far, I’m leaning towards having a separate set of wheels+tires that I can swap out on my own, one at a time, with a hydraulic jack.

The package I’m considering from Tirerack has:
- Rial Lugano OE CAP 19x8.5 Graphite Silver
- Blizzak LM-32 - 245/45R19
- TPMS sensors mounted

I have a few questions that I hope you guys can help answer:

1. Will this package be a simple swap job with my current wheels?
2. Is the swap job any more complicated: than loosening the lugs, getting that end of the car slightly off the ground with the jack, taking the 21’ summer wheel out, putting in 19’ winter wheel, hand tightening, lowering jack, tightening to torque, rinse and repeat for all wheels, resetting TPMS in UI, driving 10 min around until they get picked up by the car?
3. Do I need to worry that my current set of wheels/tires are different front vs back (staggered), and need to pick a similar setup for winter wheels, or can I go with 4 of the same for the winter package?
4. Do I need any special tool to get the lugs out of the wheel? I have a 21mm 12-point socket that seems to fit well, and a torque wrench.
5. Is it ok to use my impact wrench (it hooks to my compressor) if a lug is having a hard time getting loose?
6. Any jack you'd recommend for the job?
7. Does it make sense to keep the winter tires on during the “cold” SF Bay Area season (let’s say while we see night time freezing and wetter weather) and swap back to the performance summer tires around March-April?
8. Do I need to worry about alignment?
9. Do I need to worry about balancing? (Tirerack says they’ll do it for me)
10. When I swap my summer tires back, should I “rotate” them? Since they are staggered & asymmetric non-directional, I should be able to swap left & right (keeping the “outside” label on the outside): they’d just be rotating the other way in the new setup.
11. Should I get chains with the package? How about Autosock?
12. Is there a better place than Tirerack to consider? (there's a significant amount of $$ in shipping, but I've always been happy with TR for my Viper needs)
13. Any question I’m forgetting to ask?

Thank you all!

Best regards,

- G

 

[linkster]

1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. 21 mm 6-point ONLY!
5. Yes. (but I don't use my air tools on the S)
6. My 3000lb (rated) floor jack tends to strain, so I mostly use my 5000 jack
7. Sounds about right, but I no longer reside on the left coast
8. No
9. No
10. Yes (your tires are probabally asymmetric and not directional)
11. Dunno (I have expererience with chains, but not on an S)
12. No
13. you might consider acquiring a used set of OEM wheels as some SCs have restrictions on servicing aftermarket wheels in case your stranded or traveling out of state and need their assistance or a replacement

 

[llavalle]

Just to add a few tips :

6-I would recommend a set of Jackpoint Jackstands, they work amazingly well on the S especially since they make this dowel pin that fits right in the hole on the lift pad on the car. See : http://www.jackpointjackstands.com/

11-Chains only fit on the back of the car (the front wheel wells are way too tight). Use the one sold by Tesla, it's the only one that won't void your warranty of something bad happens : Tesla Model S Snow Chain - Trak Sport

 

[jaguar36]

+1 with what linkster said.

I wouldn't bother with the chains.

Any decent jack is fine, I use my awesome AC Hydraulic jack, and its never had a problem despite only being rated for 2800lbs.

The LM-32s are performance snow tires, so they will work well and don't feel awful when the temps are in 40s so you could leave them on for the iwnter in SF. Course its 13 degrees out today and I'm still rocking my Super Sports on my BMW. You might want to consider the X-ice, which are full studless snow tires instead. They will work significant better in the snow, but tend to feel awful on dry pavement.

Lastly, it depends on how you like the look, but you might consider the OEM winter package, its only ~$500 more.

 

[blanche]

I have the same staggered 21" setup and I just popped in my winter wheels in early December. I went with the 19" Rial and the Michelin X-Ice because the Blizzak's (which I prefer and have always used) do not support the correct tire pressure required for 19" wheels (45psi). Make sure you get it shipped from TireRack already mounted with TPMS installed

1. Yes. Easy. I did it myself
2. You got it. Very easy.
3. Winter tires are never staggered. Same 19" wheels all the way around
4. I use these 21mm Extra Thin Wall Wheel sockets.
5. I guess. You can always replace them if you damage them. I use a breaker bar to loosen them when they are stuck. Never had a problem before.
6. I use a hydraulic jack: http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=67&category=Tools
7. Can't help you there. Generally speaking, winter tires have better grip below consistent 45 degree weather.
8. Nope.
9. Nope. TireRack does it perfect every time. I've used them for winter tires on all my Porsches and BMWs as well
10. Can't see the point of it. I wouldn't bother.
11. Can't help you here. We don't use chains here in Virginia
12. Don't know but I like them too much to bother shopping elsewhere
13. Yes. Always apply a very thin layer of anti-seize compound before you put on new wheels. Otherwise, they will bind up and you'll have a devil of a time getting them off in the spring. Also, get some chalks. That way you can mark the unmounted tires (FR, FL, RR, RL) so you know where to put them on the next time.

Finally, make sure you torque everything to 129 lbs-ft / 175 Nm and the air pressure is as follows: 19" - 45psi, 21" - 40psi

Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[HankLloydRight]

- Rial Lugano OE CAP 19x8.5 Graphite Silver

I would strongly recommend going with the TSportline TST 19" wheels instead for about $500 each. With the TSTs you can use the stock lug nuts and Tesla center caps.

Not sure you can do that with the Rials.

 

[MarcG]

Here are my 2-cents on the chains question #11:

I have stock 19" wheels with the stock Michelin Primacy (MXM4 I believe tires), and driving to Tahoe several times since I got my P85D has never been a problem.

This holiday season I was in Wyoming and Utah to ski at Jackson Hole and Alta/Snowbird, respectively, and it was COLD with lots of snow - never needed the chains I bought "just in case".

So I would say that as long as the tires you get for your 19" wheels are M+S rated and perform as well as the Primacy's, you should never need chains for Tahoe!

PS: I plan on testing that theory in Mammoth shortly, but am convinced it will be fine without chains there too :biggrin:

 

[redox]

Thank you all! That's great advice!

10. Yes (your tires are probabally asymmetric and not directional)

Yes! I fixed my original post.

13. you might consider acquiring a used set of OEM wheels as some SCs have restrictions on servicing aftermarket wheels in case your stranded or traveling out of state and need their assistance or a replacement

What do you mean? If I get stranded and need to use their Roadside Assistance (let's say I got a flat) they would refuse to help because of the non OEM wheel/tire equipment?

I don't mind getting a used set of OEM wheels, but they're not so easy to find - there's a guy selling some here, but I wouldn't know if they are truly true (ha!) and if all the TPMS sensors work until it's too late. The wheels have some curb rash and the tires all need replacing (basically I'd be buying wheels+older tpms), so I'd have to take them for a local install, which brings the cost close to new wheels/tires/tpms from TireRack.

- - - Updated - - -

Lastly, it depends on how you like the look, but you might consider the OEM winter package, its only ~$500 more.

I don't mind the look, but I read somewhere (probably in here!) that the tires it comes with aren't so good?

- - - Updated - - -

I have the same staggered 21" setup and I just popped in my winter wheels in early December. I went with the 19" Rial and the Michelin X-Ice because the Blizzak's (which I prefer and have always used) do not support the correct tire pressure required for 19" wheels (45psi). Make sure you get it shipped from TireRack already mounted with TPMS installed

The LM-32 does seem to support 45 psi inflation according to the specs @ TireRack (50 psi max). Am I reading this incorrectly?
They also say, on the wheel page, "Requires 45psi for 245/45-19. Blizzak LM60 has max pressure of 44psi. Please confirm max pressure rating prior to sale." - But when I go look at the LM60 specs page it says 50 psi max... I'm missing something here.

13. Yes. Always apply a very thin layer of anti-seize compound before you put on new wheels. Otherwise, they will bind up and you'll have a devil of a time getting them off in the spring.

This is probably a stupid question, but where do you apply the anti-seize compound?

- - - Updated - - -

So I would say that as long as the tires you get for your 19" wheels are M+S rated and perform as well as the Primacy's, you should never need chains for Tahoe!

PS: I plan on testing that theory in Mammoth shortly, but am convinced it will be fine without chains there too :biggrin:

Sure but you'll probably go there with your "just in case" chains, because you know in all likelihood you won't need them, but if - for whatever reason - you end up needing them, you won't get stranded.
It's like insurance: you hope you won't need it, and statistically you probably won't, but you still want to have it "just in case", because the alternative can be extremely painful.
...unless you're planning to test your luck without even carrying them around?

Maybe carrying Autosocks is good enough for peace of mind and "get me out of this mess" emergencies, especially now that they are approved to be used in CA?
I couldn't find anyone with experience with Autosocks & Model S. Since they are so thin, I wonder if they can fit on all 4 tires, especially since I can raise the suspension to "very high" setting. Thoughts?

 

[AMPUP]

I have the same staggered 21" setup and I just popped in my winter wheels in early December. I went with the 19" Rial and the Michelin X-Ice because the Blizzak's (which I prefer and have always used) do not support the correct tire pressure required for 19" wheels (45psi). Make sure you get it shipped from TireRack already mounted with TPMS installed

1. Yes. Easy. I did it myself
2. You got it. Very easy.
3. Winter tires are never staggered. Same 19" wheels all the way around
4. I use these 21mm Extra Thin Wall Wheel sockets.
5. I guess. You can always replace them if you damage them. I use a breaker bar to loosen them when they are stuck. Never had a problem before.
6. I use a hydraulic jack: http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=67&category=Tools
7. Can't help you there. Generally speaking, winter tires have better grip below consistent 45 degree weather.
8. Nope.
9. Nope. TireRack does it perfect every time. I've used them for winter tires on all my Porsches and BMWs as well
10. Can't see the point of it. I wouldn't bother.
11. Can't help you here. We don't use chains here in Virginia
12. Don't know but I like them too much to bother shopping elsewhere
13. Yes. Always apply a very thin layer of anti-seize compound before you put on new wheels. Otherwise, they will bind up and you'll have a devil of a time getting them off in the spring. Also, get some chalks. That way you can mark the unmounted tires (FR, FL, RR, RL) so you know where to put them on the next time.

Finally, make sure you torque everything to 129 lbs-ft / 175 Nm and the air pressure is as follows: 19" - 45psi, 21" - 40psi

Feel free to ask any questions.

+1, I'm in virginia and have the same package mounted on my S

 

[MarcG]

Maybe carrying Autosocks is good enough for peace of mind and "get me out of this mess" emergencies, especially now that they are approved to be used in CA?
I couldn't find anyone with experience with Autosocks & Model S. Since they are so thin, I wonder if they can fit on all 4 tires, especially since I can raise the suspension to "very high" setting. Thoughts?

There was some discussion on Autosocks in this thread and it sounds like they weren't that good, but I don't have personal experience with them...

 

[redox]

There was some discussion on Autosocks in this thread and it sounds like they weren't that good, but I don't have personal experience with them...

Yes I read that before posting this thread. It seemed the part about Autosocks wasn't particularly productive
The confusing part for me is that the thread you are mentioning does indeed make it sound like they aren't that good (nobody's feedback is quoted there though), but the Amazon reviews are pretty darn good... so what to believe!?

What I found online (outside of Amazon's review) seems to indicate that they are quite good, but don't do so great on "dry road" (seems to make sense that their material would "shred" under forces of friction), so you have to take them out if you're not on snow anymore, unless you want to consider them as "disposable emergency devices" (which isn't too crazy IMHO if you don't expect to use them at all - just like with your chains, "peace of mind" only).

I wish there was a Model S owner with feedback on them... (yes, I know, I could be the first... guinea pig - been there, done that - you remember the P85D blackhole don't you? :smile: )

 

[HankLloydRight]

13. Yes. Always apply a very thin layer of anti-seize compound before you put on new wheels. Otherwise, they will bind up and you'll have a devil of a time getting them off in the spring. Also, get some chalks. That way you can mark the unmounted tires (FR, FL, RR, RL) so you know where to put them on the next time.

This is probably a stupid question, but where do you apply the anti-seize compound?

I highly recommend these Wheel Mates -- it's a thin non-metallic material disk that goes between the rotor and the wheel, and prevents rusting and binding of the wheels to the hub: Wheel Mate | Wheel Stuck on Car | Frozen Wheel | Wheel Mates

No anti-seize needed. I've been using these on my BMW wheel swaps for years, and the wheels never rust/seize to the hubs.

Also agree about the wheel chalk! I make sure to mark the wheel/tire locations.. and then the next season, I rotate them front<-->back.

 

[gutowskia]

I would strongly recommend going with the TSportline TST 19" wheels instead for about $500 each. With the TSTs you can use the stock lug nuts and Tesla center caps.

Not sure you can do that with the Rials.

+1. I got the TSportline TST 19" package preinstalled with TPMS and tires balanced ready to go. I use the 19s during winter months. These have been great and look like a smaller version of my 21" turbines. TPMS reset via console. Caution on the little screw that holds the brake disks. Both factory and TSTs clear the protruding screw some others might not.

 

[green1]

I would strongly recommend going with the TSportline TST 19" wheels instead for about $500 each. With the TSTs you can use the stock lug nuts and Tesla center caps.

Not sure you can do that with the Rials.

Rials use the OEM centre cap, and need new lug nuts, but they ship with them when ordered from tirerack, at well under half the cost of the TSTs and pretty much identical looks I just couldn't justify doing anything else.

 

[AMPUP]

Rials use the OEM centre cap, and need new lug nuts, but they ship with them when ordered from tirerack, at well under half the cost of the TSTs and pretty much identical looks I just couldn't justify doing anything else.

Get Gorilla lug nuts and they will fit both the OEM's and Rials as well as replace those weak OEM lugs. You also get hazard insurance thrown in with Tirerack which I just claimed on, its a good deal for the package.

 

[green1]

Get Gorilla lug nuts and they will fit both the OEM's and Rials as well as replace those weak OEM lugs. You also get hazard insurance thrown in with Tirerack which I just claimed on, its a good deal for the package.

I just saw that about the lugs, for now I'll just use the ones I have, but if I ever need to replace them, I know where I'll be looking!
I only bought the wheels from tire rack, in my location it was much cheaper to source the tires and TPMS locally and have them assembled here. I do however have road hazard warranty from KalTire on the tires I bought here.

 

[blanche]

The LM-32 does seem to support 45 psi inflation according to the specs @ TireRack (50 psi max). Am I reading this incorrectly?
They also say, on the wheel page, "Requires 45psi for 245/45-19. Blizzak LM60 has max pressure of 44psi. Please confirm max pressure rating prior to sale." - But when I go look at the LM60 specs page it says 50 psi max... I'm missing something here.

This is probably a stupid question, but where do you apply the anti-seize compound?

When I called TireRack in November, the incredibly helpful person on the phone noticed that I've been buying Blizzak's for all my other cars over the years. He then pointed out that the max inflation seems to come in just below the 45psi requirement. Based on that he felt that he could not recommend the Blizzak for this application. I went with his recommendation without independently verifying this. It's possible that things have changed. I would strongly recommend calling this in to TireRack and asking them to look it up and confirm.

Also, the Michelin X-Ice is specifically marked as "Heavy Load" -- just like my summer tires. Given how heavy the Tesla is, I would again go this route. Btw, if you configure TireRack with your Model S first and then go looking for a wheel/tire combo, you will get a clear warning on the Blizzak page (above link) that there is a pressure problem.

The anti-seize compound is applied where the car's hub meets the wheel (metal on metal contact). Just a tiny dab and then spread it with the included application brush. Btw, anti-seize compound is basically fire-proof grease. You could have just used regular grease except it might catch fire under heat.

This video should give you the general idea -- although, I just apply a teeny tiny bit. This gentleman appears to be painting a michaelangelo with the anti-seize compound.

Btw, if you've ever taken all the lug nuts off a wheel and yet the wheel is magically stuck to the car then this is what you do. Get a mallet, lean under the car and hit the tire (not the wheel) from the inside. This should usually pop it off. Then apply anti-seize every time you switch wheels and never have to deal with his embarrassing problem.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have the jackpoint stands and they are awesome!

Just to add a few tips :

6-I would recommend a set of Jackpoint Jackstands, they work amazingly well on the S especially since they make this dowel pin that fits right in the hole on the lift pad on the car. See : http://www.jackpointjackstands.com/

11-Chains only fit on the back of the car (the front wheel wells are way too tight). Use the one sold by Tesla, it's the only one that won't void your warranty of something bad happens : Tesla Model S Snow Chain - Trak Sport

 

[StaceyS]

I got the 19" Rial Lugano tire and wheel package from Tire rack. I got Dunlop Wintersport 3D tires instead though, as I've had them on previous vehicles and have been happy with them. We've driven our P85 through some pretty treacherous conditions over the Christmas holiday and they did just great. Still very happy with the Dunlops.

The Rial's came with their own lug nuts. Its critical when you're removing your 21" turbines to use a 6 point wrench, not a 12 point. The stock lug nut is really just a pressed steel cap over the actual nut, so if you have a 12-point wrench, it will just bend the cap and not take the lug nut off. (Speaking from experience here...)

I haven't gotten chains for our P85 yet, I'm sort of planning not to. My parents have a place in Tahoe Donner so I'm over Donner Pass frequently. So far, every time there has been chain controls in the Tahoe area, my previous 2WD cars with winter tires (with the snowflake symbol or mountain/snowflake symbol) have been let through. I haven't been through there when chain controls are in effect in the P85 yet, but would expect similar treatment.

 

[green1]

Btw, if you've ever taken all the lug nuts off a wheel and yet the wheel is magically stuck to the car then this is what you do. Get a mallet, lean under the car and hit the tire (not the wheel) from the inside. This should usually pop it off. Then apply anti-seize every time you switch wheels and never have to deal with his embarrassing problem.

I've always just kicked the tire from the outside and had it pop off...