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With the new refresh on model 3s and new ranges. Will older models get a range increase?

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Thanks!

Looks like I will need to add a 2020 Model 3, version 2, to my spreadsheet, after all! (Assuming these improvements are not retroactive to all of 2020.)

In summary, assuming they did NOT stick a heat pump in your 2020 - (this should be easy to say one way or another...) these results suggest the upcoming 2021 353-rated-mile range increase from 322 rated miles is:

31-rated-mile increase comes from:

20 rated miles from efficiency improvements of unknown origin (hardware and/or software changes of some form).

11 rated miles from heat pump scalar effects (we’ll see!)

(Can scale these numbers down by ratio 304/322 to get the increases for a 19” wheel - so you added about 19 rated miles.)

No increase due to battery capacity increase (yet?).
 
Thanks!

Looks like I will need to add a 2020 Model 3, version 2, to my spreadsheet, after all! (Assuming these improvements are not retroactive to all of 2020.)

In summary, assuming they did NOT stick a heat pump in your 2020 - (this should be easy to say one way or another...) these results suggest the upcoming 2021 353-rated-mile range increase from 322 rated miles is:

31-rated-mile increase comes from:

20 rated miles from efficiency improvements of unknown origin (hardware changes of some form).

11 rated miles from heat pump scalar effects (we’ll see!)

(Can scale these numbers down by ratio 304/322 to get the increases for a 19” wheel - so you added about 19 rated miles.)

No increase due to battery capacity increase (yet?).
Alright. I have few minutes, unless you know of some better way to check, I'm going to take the cover off the frunk and see if I can get glimpse of a maybe heat pump (assuming it's bright orange and in the same place as a Model Y).
 
Alright. I have few minutes, unless you know of some better way to check, I'm going to take the cover off the frunk and see if I can get glimpse of a maybe heat pump (assuming it's bright orange and in the same place as a Model Y).

I am not asking you to do that! Don’t want you to break any clips. My understanding (I don’t know) is that you can tell based on the noises it makes when heating with AC off? No idea.

I’d just wait and see how this all settles out. You don’t have the range expected of a Model 3 2021 so it seems like it would make sense you do not have a heat pump. You have some sort of chimera instead! Unicorn!

Either that or they are just mucking with the constant on the late 2020s with no basis for it, just to make owners feel better. (I doubt it - probably some hardware iterations.)
 
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I am not asking you to do that! Don’t want you to break any clips. My understanding (I don’t know) is that you can tell based on the noises it makes when heating with AC off? No idea.

I’d just wait and see how this all settles out. You don’t have the range expected of a Model 3 2021 so it seems like it would make sense you do not have a heat pump. You have some sort of chimera instead.

haha. I really want to check now. With the heat at max and A/C off, it makes the same amount of noise as it does when the it's on "LO" and the A/C on. Also, it's FAR quieter than my my old MS. Totally taking that cover off!! It's straightforward, I did it on the MS.
 
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I am not asking you to do that! Don’t want you to break any clips. My understanding (I don’t know) is that you can tell based on the noises it makes when heating with AC off? No idea.

I’d just wait and see how this all settles out. You don’t have the range expected of a Model 3 2021 so it seems like it would make sense you do not have a heat pump. You have some sort of chimera instead! Unicorn!

Either that or they are just mucking with the constant on the late 2020s with no basis for it, just to make owners feel better. (I doubt it - probably some hardware iterations.)
PXL_20201023_162949634.jpg


No dice.
 
I know there are other threads about 2021 range, but are there other threads going with 2020 post-June owners who have discussed what is happening with their cars? Would be nice to get the links...maybe see some data with 18”...from relatively new cars. I haven’t bothered to do an exhaustive search and only have been seeing discussion about 2021 recently.

Yours is a great example for 2020, since it is so new, and nearly certainly has very little capacity loss so far.
 
My car is also a post-June 2020 M3 DM LR with 19" sport wheels. Delivery in mid-September. Just passed 1k miles.

I normally charge to 75%. Out of curiosity, I kicked it up to 78% just to see how it compares to sublimejackman. He's now getting 252. I got 251. (According to TeslaFi, I'm showing 250.59 rated miles)

I've been poking through TeslaFi looking at various drives from before the update to get a baseline- the very first charge at home was to 90% and gave me 289 miles. So 12% less charge today results in 38 fewer rated miles.

Not sure how efficiency plays into it, but the rated miles appear to be the same as before the update.

What I should get:

100% = 320 miles
90% = 320-32 (10%) =288
78% = 320-70 (22%) =250

My real life numbers from TeslaFi:

90% = 289 rated miles
78% = 251 rated miles
 
What I should get:

100% = 320 miles
90% = 320-32 (10%) =288
78% = 320-70 (22%) =250

My real life numbers from TeslaFi:

90% = 289 rated miles
78% = 251 rated miles

So has this always been what you have seen at 100%? What does TeslaFi look like since the car was new?

EDIT: Just saw you got it mid-September - so maybe you don't have enough historical data to be meaningful here...

What happens to your rated range display if you change your wheel configuration to 18"? (It's a bit of a pain but it's not that big a deal to do this then switch it back.)

I wonder if Tesla just got rid of the different constants for different wheel sizes at some point in 2020?

These numbers just all look really close to the 18" wheel numbers, which is why I ask.
 
So has this always been what you have seen at 100%? What does TeslaFi look like since the car was new?

EDIT: Just saw you got it mid-September - so maybe you don't have enough historical data to be meaningful here...

Well, I've never charged it to 100%, so just extrapolating. But yes, the rated range has stayed spot on for the 1st 1,000 miles. (as it damn well better!)

I'll take a look at changing the config to 18" wheels to see how it changes the rated range. Thanks for the tip!
 
My car is also a post-June 2020 M3 DM LR with 19" sport wheels. Delivery in mid-September. Just passed 1k miles.

I normally charge to 75%. Out of curiosity, I kicked it up to 78% just to see how it compares to sublimejackman. He's now getting 252. I got 251. (According to TeslaFi, I'm showing 250.59 rated miles)

I've been poking through TeslaFi looking at various drives from before the update to get a baseline- the very first charge at home was to 90% and gave me 289 miles. So 12% less charge today results in 38 fewer rated miles.

Not sure how efficiency plays into it, but the rated miles appear to be the same as before the update.

What I should get:

100% = 320 miles
90% = 320-32 (10%) =288
78% = 320-70 (22%) =250

My real life numbers from TeslaFi:

90% = 289 rated miles
78% = 251 rated miles

So the rated range on yours is the same as mine. Wonder if anyone who has a post June 2020 but pre sept 2020 M3 LR can chime in on their range?
 
I don't completely agree with this. I see where you are coming from, but there could be other optimizations done that cause the overall system to use less power. Shutting down unneeded processors, running fans at lower speeds after a bit more real-world experience, changing the power curve or other behaviors of the motors and so on. You'd think most of these things would have been done before first release, but HW3(as an example) certainly wasn't there for first-release.
This has already happened for M3 .. doubt tyere is much left in the optimization bucket.
 
so just extrapolating.

This is fine as long as it is from 80% or 90% or so. Obviously there is some error due to rounding, but it's just a couple miles.

But yes, the rated range has stayed spot on for the 1st 1,000 miles. (as it damn well better!)

As @Rocky_H has indicated, this is too much to hope for. You should expect:

1) If you're really lucky, you might see just 1-2% loss of range in the first couple years. (But it's more complicated; you might have lost as much as 3-4% of actual capacity in this case.) Perhaps 5% of owners?

2) Much more typical is ~5% in the first couple years. (Actually more like 6%, but there's a wide range in this category.)

3) 8-10% is not unusual at all in the first couple years. (Actually more like 9-11%.) Perhaps 10% of owners?

4) If you put more miles on it, obviously this will skew you towards a higher capacity loss, but age of the battery is also a significant factor.

5) After those first couple years, your capacity loss should slow down considerably.

As long as the capacity loss stays within these limits and slows considerably from that point, it's really not that big a deal, though. 70kWh is PLENTY of energy to get between most Superchargers, in most situations, and that's when it matters. For people in extremely cold climates this is less true, but in general it's still a lot of energy.
 
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This is fine as long as it is from 80% or 90% or so. Obviously there is some error due to rounding, but it's just a couple miles.



As @Rocky_H has indicated, this is too much to hope for. You should expect:

1) If you're really lucky, you might see just 1-2% loss of range in the first couple years. (But it's more complicated; you might have lost as much as 3-4% of actual capacity in this case.) Perhaps 5% of owners?

2) Much more typical is ~5% in the first couple years. (Actually more like 6%, but there's a wide range in this category.)

3) 8-10% is not unusual at all in the first couple years. (Actually more like 9-11%.) Perhaps 10% of owners?

4) If you put more miles on it, obviously this will skew you towards a higher capacity loss, but age of the battery is also a significant factor.

5) After those first couple years, your capacity loss should slow down considerably.

As long as the capacity loss stays within these limits and slows considerably from that point, it's really not that big a deal, though. 70kWh is PLENTY of energy to get between most Superchargers, in most situations, and that's when it matters. For people in extremely cold climates this is less true, but in general it's still a lot of energy.

On my 2017 Model S 75D, after 3 years and 69k miles (34k of which was supercharged), I had 8% degradation. The first year seemed to be the biggest with ~4% hit. But after two years, it seemed to stabilize at 7%.

Always keep in mind the "effective" range of the vehicle. The number on the display really doesn't mean much. For the old car it was 200mi, for this new one I'd say it's ~250mi.

Don't go below 5% and don't go over 90% unless you physically can't get somewhere otherwise. The dead lithium is what gets ya.

God I miss unlimited supercharging...