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Worthwhile to buy EAP now?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by CardGuy, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. CardGuy

    CardGuy Member

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    If ordering new, is it worthwhile to buy EAP now and try to save the $1k, or should I wait until I get the car and people report its working and ready to go? Kind of nervous to spend the $5k and not be able to use it.
     
  2. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    EAP is available now, just in a limited state:
    • TACC up to 80 MPH
    • Autosteer up to 50 MPH (on limited access highways)
    So if you want TACC over regular CC I would just say to go for it.
     
  3. jareade

    jareade Supporting Member

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    If ordering new, I'd certainly do it. You're going to have some wait time for your car in any event and while it is being built, EAP should just keep getting better and better. And it's already active - just not at full speed yet (I believe Autosteer is actually up to 45 MPH on highways with on and off ramps). I've already used EAP a lot in the three weeks I have the car, so IMO if you are going to do it anyway, I'd definitely look to save the $1K and activate now.
     
  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    They just released an update last night that took the TACC/AS from 75/45MPH to 80/50MPH.
     
  5. jareade

    jareade Supporting Member

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    Good catch - unfortunately that update hasn't made it to me yet!
     
  6. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    EAP = Yeah, go for it. By the time you get your car you'll probably have 50% or so of what EAP is.

    FSD = NO!!!!!!
     
    • Like x 4
  7. Deans

    Deans Member

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    +1
     
  8. croman

    croman Active Member

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    In 3 months we'll have threads asking 'Should I buy FSD now?' and you'll get the same response. If you can afford both, buy them. FSD will be differentiating itself from EAP shortly (if you believe Elon time).
     
    • Disagree x 2
  9. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    The problem with FSD is there are way more questions than answers. When you have more questions than answers then is it a good investment?

    Here are a few of the the questions I have.

    1.) Does the side monitoring use the cameras and how many of them? All 5 (sides + rear)? Or only the ultrasonics? it's not part of EAP or FSD package. It's a standard feature for anyone who buys it.

    2.) How well do the cameras work in the rain and other adverse conditions. On my AP1 the rear view camera is useless most of the time in the winter unless I clean it off constantly. It's supposed to be better with AP2, but we don't have any data to show the improvement.

    3.) Can I view a live image of any camera I want instead of just the rear camera? Can I get a 360 view? Do I have to have EAP or FSD to do that?

    4.) What exactly does the "Yes, safety should improve significantly due to autonomy features, even if regs disallow no driver present" tweet mean? There is no mention of what these features would be, and how it would work. To really improve safety you have to risk safety. Which means a lot of testing to make sure it doesn't screw up. Like lets say they used the wide angle front camera, and the side forward facing cameras to detect crossing traffic at a stop light. Where it also watched out for rogue pedestrians. Now I think we can all agree this would be a valuable extra layer of protection. But, that requires a lot of testing. You not only have to test to make sure it doesn't screw up in suddenly slamming on the brakes just as you start to go, but you have to test to make sure it has a high detection rate. The whole maximize true positives, and minimize false positives. But, when they do come out with this Tesla has to decide whether to include it as standard with all the other safety features of an AP2 car, or they have to make the conscious decision to exclude every AP2 owner except FSD owners. That's a bit tricky given Elon's intense focus on safety. Such an intense focus that people who didn't order the driver assistance package (on AP1/AP2) still got the safety benefits the hardware provides. Now Elon's tweet could refer to simply having the car doing the driving, but that's a bit of weird scenario. The car does the driving, but I have to take responsibility? The whole purpose of FSD is to have clear distinct lines on who is responsible.

    5.) In accounting terms when can Tesla start to take revenue from the FSD package. At what point does it have to be for them to start grabbing the money. I don't like the idea of having idle money. Where it's just sitting somewhere waiting for regulators to approve FSD on a state by state basis.

    6.) How is the navigation going to be achieved? The current nav is simply not up to the task of optimal routing. Is it going to be "yet, another nav system"?

    7.) Why $3K? Clearly FSD is worth orders of magnitudes more than $3K so what's the catch? I can't help, but think it's too good to be true.

    8.) What work on FSD is even being done? Aside from time spent making a couple of youtube videos there isn't any data on Tesla actually testing FSD on public roads. I don't care about what happens in a simulation. I care about the real world with real world conditions. You can't tell me a FSD is safer than my driving unless it can predict with some accuracy when someone is going to suddenly change lanes. Something my brain does that bewilders me about how accurate it can predict.

    Now I want to clarify one thing: I completely understand people excited by the technology, and simply want to participate by giving Tesla $3K for it. That for those people it's not an investment at all. It's simply a participation cost in something fun. I understand this because half of my Tesla experience so far has been this. It's been a fun adventure, and I'm glad I took part in it. I'll probably get the FSD package if/when I upgrade despite not liking the approach Tesla took to it. I think they gave people unrealistic expectations, and prematurely lowered the value of AP1 cars.
     
  10. CardGuy

    CardGuy Member

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    Thanks for the feedback, I will order it now. Rather not have to spend the extra $1,000 later on.
     
  11. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    An easy answer is that FSD will be years away, and there is a chance that it will never come to be.
    Today, in my narrow suburban street, I saw a cyclist glance to his right. I backed off the accelerator just as he swerved two body-widths to the right. At no stage did he see or hear me, but I could have clipped him if I hadn't been paying attention.
    I can't imagine a computer noticing this subtlety anytime soon.

    My advice would be to get EAP with purchase, but wait many years until FSD is proven. I drove 400km with AP1 this very day and am convinced it is safer than driving manually. EAP will give you the same support and safety.
     
    • Like x 3
  12. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    Quick question.

    How well does AP1 handle the massively long semi-trucks in Australia? The ones that are basically trains on the road.
     
  13. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    Doesn't seem to be a problem. It's a bit like going into a tunnel. Feels a bit close at first then the car edges away from the truck.
    I've only experienced double length, not the really long ones.
     
  14. SeminoleFSU

    SeminoleFSU Voluntaryist

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    #14 SeminoleFSU, Feb 5, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
    Perhaps this has been discussed in other threads, but I am also confused how Tesla can "double the number of active cameras from 4 to 8" after you have purchased the car. Does this mean the wiring is all there and one SvC trip and they can swap everything out after you pay $3k+$1k once the capabilities are available? Does anyone have any pictures of a car with the 2.0 FSD suite vs just the EAP to compare where these cameras are and what they're intended to do? As others have wondered out loud before, if FSD doesn't get approved, will double the # of cameras help EAP even if the FSD features are not paid for or are not approved to roll out yet? So many mysteries.... to be honest it seems like it would make more sense for Tesla to just offer the EAP package with all the necessary hardware as an option and not try and do EAP with FSD being an add on.
     
  15. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    The key word there is active. Every car has all 8 cameras and the associated wiring and hardware. If you pay for EAP they turn on 4 of the cameras. If you pay for EAP+FSD they turn on all eight of them.

    According to Elon FSD is supposed to start adding abilities and features that aren't available to EAP cars in the next 6 months or so. (So it will add things even before the full FSD feature set is available/approved.)
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. SeminoleFSU

    SeminoleFSU Voluntaryist

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    Thanks MP3Mike! This helps...
     

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