Would an S60 work for me?

[hingisfan]

Hi guys,

I'm anticipating Model X being out of my price range, so I am re-considering getting the S, possibly in a 60 battery.

We live 25km north of Kingston, have a 2nd ICE vehicle, cars park outside (no room in garage). My work commute is 50km to work, park outside with no charging, and then 50km back home. We only go out of town maybe 6-8 times a year and its usually just to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal, maybe down to Syracuse or Niagara Falls once in a blue moon. I started looking at google maps and it looks like we are in a pretty good location to make a 60 work based on where we drive.

Here are the distances from our house to the following:
Toronto Tesla SC - 251km
Cobourg (SC soon) - 151km
Cornwall SC - 199km
Ottawa (SC soon) - 153km
Syracuse (SC soon) - 231km

Can I make all these in a 60 even in the winter? How close will I cut it? Not too keen on driving without heat at 100km/h on the 401. (not often anyway)

Thanks guys!

 

[Doug_G]

I'm reluctant to recommend a 60 for use in Ontario or similar locales with cold winters. The extra draw required for battery pack heating is a major issue in extreme cold. While the 60 has a slightly lower heating requirement due to less battery mass, it also has significantly less reserve capacity.

I do not believe you could make it to the Toronto Supercharger (or Syracuse) in extreme cold. Cobourg no problem. Cornwall should be okay but I would keep a close eye on power draw.

Also I wouldn't recommend turning off heat; it's better to make sure the car is nicely preheated and then just slow down a little. It only takes a few kph to make up for the heater draw once the drive train is warmed up. (If you're in really big trouble and at risk of falling short then I would turn off the heat, and drive as slow as safely practical. I also recommend never putting yourself in that position - it's avoidable.)

 

[iKhalid]

From a person who owns an S60, I would say it is not that bad for your daily commute! In extreme cold weather, you should be ok getting at least 200KM out of the battery if the car is already pre-heated.
Of course an 85 battery is better, but I don't regret getting a 60 at all. I personally don't go on long trips a lot, but going from Ottawa to Montreal for example is never an issue. Almost the same distance to Kingston, and a bit more to Toronto from there. I'm positive that it's doable if you manage your energy well.

I said this before and I will say it again: when I had the P85 loaner, the car took forever to heat up when it was around -20C. Mine on the other hand didn't take long to get to the 30k regen braking level. Every minute you spend driving the car while the battery is still cold will have a huge impact on the energy.

Bottom line: I'm personally comfortable with my 60 with the currently available superchargers. If you travel a lot, I recommend going with the 85, but if you're an average driver, getting a 60 won't be an issue.

 

[ecarfan]

Look for a used S 85. The warranty is fully transferable, of course. There are some good used low mileage Teslas out there.

 

[iKhalid]

Look for a used S 85. The warranty is fully transferable, of course. There are some good used low mileage Teslas out there.

Exactly, why would you buy a new one?

I wish I had the luxury of being able to find a used Tesla easily when I was buying mine. For what I paid, I would've gone with a used P85.

 

[Brass Guy]

I'd say Syracuse is a bit of a gamble in winter. By now you know what Tesla "soon" means, so don't count on Cobourg or Ottowa until it's under construction. Through Cornwall to Montreal is probably OK if you follow iKhalid's advice.
Before those "soon" SCs go in, you'll need destination charging or take another car. After the SCs are in, the Syracuse trip in winter would be the only one to be concerned about.
The 60 will definitely work for you if you're keeping another car for any questionable trips.

Used 85 is a great idea.

 

[hingisfan]

Look for a used S 85. The warranty is fully transferable, of course. There are some good used low mileage Teslas out there.

I haven't seen any up here. Canadian car market totally different than US.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say Syracuse is a bit of a gamble in winter. By now you know what Tesla "soon" means, so don't count on Cobourg or Ottowa until it's under construction. Through Cornwall to Montreal is probably OK if you follow iKhalid's advice.
Before those "soon" SCs go in, you'll need destination charging or take another car. After the SCs are in, the Syracuse trip in winter would be the only one to be concerned about.
The 60 will definitely work for you if you're keeping another car for any questionable trips.

Used 85 is a great idea.

Yes, I would be counting on the Cobourg dot being a reality this year, as Toronto would be a popular trip for me, maybe once every 2-3 months.

I havent seen any used 85's that make sense for me. I don't need a lot of options, and with used you don't get the $8500 back from the Ontario EV rebate, which is a nice discount when buying new.

 

[iKhalid]

I haven't seen any up here. Canadian car market totally different than US.

New & Used TESLA Model S for sale | autoTRADER.ca

 

[Morristhecat]

cars park outside (no room in garage).

Maybe you should clean out the garage to make room, which would help with not having it cold soak in the winter? It would probably also help with the charger installation.

 

[hingisfan]

New & Used TESLA Model S for sale | autoTRADER.ca

I saw that one for $80,000, but I can buy an S85 brand new for $89,670. Take off the $8,500 (pre-tax $7,522), and I'm at $82,148 plus tax for brand new vs $80,000 for used. Plus I get more warranty and the newer sensor suite on the new one!

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you should clean out the garage to make room, which would help with not having it cold soak in the winter? It would probably also help with the charger installation.

Single car garage so not gonna happen, also if I preheat properly for a longer trip it's not going to make any difference anyway right?

 

[Supercharged]

I would not recommend the S60 at all!
You will probably like your car more than you think and you will want to travel more with it, believe me.
You won't want the hassle of range anxiety when you drive. In extreme cold, you will lose 50% of range so keep that in mind plus you will probably be charging more at home, which means higher energy bills especially if you charge in the daytime.

The other factor is trade in value. When it comes time to sell your S60, you will not got much for it whereas an S85 will be more popular for buyers.

 

[hingisfan]

I would not recommend the S60 at all!
You will probably like your car more than you think and you will want to travel more with it, believe me.
You won't want the hassle of range anxiety when you drive. In extreme cold, you will lose 50% of range so keep that in mind plus you will probably be charging more at home, which means higher energy bills especially if you charge in the daytime.

The other factor is trade in value. When it comes time to sell your S60, you will not got much for it whereas an S85 will be more popular for buyers.

I would love to get the 85 with tech, but price is a huge concern for me, so I might have to settle for the 60. If it's a choice between taking the ICE in winter and owning a 60 vs not owning a Tesla at all, I will compromise and get the 60. I plan to own long term too, so resale not a concern at this time.

 

[iKhalid]

I would love to get the 85 with tech, but price is a huge concern for me, so I might have to settle for the 60. If it's a choice between taking the ICE in winter and owning a 60 vs not owning a Tesla at all, I will compromise and get the 60. I plan to own long term too, so resale not a concern at this time.

There are many Tesla owners who store their Tesla's in the winter and they own 85s.

If it's either a 60 or nothing, I would gladly go with the 60. I personally went with more option over a bigger battery because I enjoy them every day. Given how many times I take a long trip, I would rent an ICE during winters if I have to. Superchargers will be everywhere so it will get better overtime. Don't forget that the Model 3 will have the 60's range, so Tesla will be well prepared.

Again, for the people who can afford the 85, please buy an 85; but that doesn't make the 60 a bad car.

 

[hingisfan]

There are many Tesla owners who store their Tesla's in the winter and they own 85s.

If it's either a 60 or nothing, I would gladly go with the 60. I personally went with more option over a bigger battery because I enjoy them every day. Given how many times I take a long trip, I would rent an ICE during winters if I have to. Superchargers will be everywhere so it will get better overtime. Don't forget that the Model 3 will have the 60's range, so Tesla will be well prepared.

Again, for the people who can afford the 85, please buy an 85; but that doesn't make the 60 a bad car.

I agree, and I didn't mean store the car for winter, just we would take the ICE the odd time we went out of town, again maybe 2-3 times each winter, and when Cobourg comes online it might only be 1-2 winter trips where we would have to take the ICE. It saves me 10 grand after tax to get a 60 instead of an 85, and when a Model S is barely feasible, 10 grand makes a big difference. I know the 85 has a better warranty, but the mileage I drive it won't make much of a difference, if any.

 

[mackgoo]

Go to your local show room/design center and ask about their fleet cars. On a regular basis they move cars from show room to test drive to finally customer courtesy cars. The end result you have a "new" car all rebates credits available with a few thousand miles, mine had 7600 at a 15 - 20% discount.

 

[hingisfan]

Go to your local show room/design center and ask about their fleet cars. On a regular basis they move cars from show room to test drive to finally customer courtesy cars. The end result you have a "new" car all rebates credits available with a few thousand miles, mine had 7600 at a 15 - 20% discount.

In Ontario the car must be under 2,000km to still qualify for the rebate. As a loaner, that gets chewed up in a couple weeks.

 

[Morristhecat]

I was in your same situation to stretch it when I bought my 60. But 2 years later and that initial giant hit is long gone. If I had to do it again though, I think I might buy used to get an 85, although the new sensor array & dual drive system would be tempting. If it's a 60 or nothing, however I think you will be quite happy with the 60, as @iKhalid mentioned. Although it doesn't get to -25 here on the west coast, my commute is similar to yours, and I have never ever even come close to running out of range in my 60. I had more range anxiety in my old ICE car! Mind you the lowest temperature in the winter around here is generally -5ish, so take that with a grain of salt. So in winter heed @Doug_G's advise. I have done a few longer winter trips using the superchargers, and the superchargers are spaced out close enough to not be a concern for a 60 around here. You may have to charge a bit longer than others, but since long trips are so few, so what. Just stop and eat for closer to an hour rather than just 30 min. Your run to the Toronto SC will be a bit of a problem in the worst of winter, but in the spring/summer/fall it will be no issue. All your other runs are fine in winter with pre-warming. Some folks buy an 85 to account for long term battery degradation, but I do not expect battery degradation after 10 years to be too much as some accademics have pointed out, but who knows. My battery level typically settles to about a 10% loss, but after a long trip with a couple of 100% charges and big discharges it always bounces back to where it was new. Good luck.