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Would AP2 ever support the DashCam feature

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I think it is still too early for any clarity on your question.

Sentry mode isn't really a trigger for any upgrade promises anyway.

The question Tesla will eventually be obliged to answer is 'what will be upgraded to meet the needs of FSD features?'

... and you can't really deal with that question until there are FSD features...
Yes, I agree. My question is is the lack of answers to simple questions. If Tesla would just say AP2 cars will be FSD ( equal to AP2.5) but not Sentry/Dash cam and why, then I am fine. Of course I missed AP2.5 by one month but paid for FSD.
 
I'm not sure the answers are all that simple though. Especially when there are thousands of people hanging on every word he says and willing to sue when the time is right...

Sometimes it is better not to answer until you are sure, not that this has been a particular problem for Elon in the past... :)
 
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Yes, I agree. My question is is the lack of answers to simple questions. If Tesla would just say AP2 cars will be FSD ( equal to AP2.5) but not Sentry/Dash cam and why, then I am fine. Of course I missed AP2.5 by one month but paid for FSD.

Tesla has already said that AP2 will be FSD with a free upgrade. They don't owe you any answers regarding Sentry/Dashcam...
 
I do not understand everyone's animosity. Simply put Tesla made a commitment to sell a car with a full self driving option, not a feature that was just recently introduced. When Tesla finalizes the software and hardware configuration to make FSD possible. Tesla will start retrofitting cars with the FSD option. If they need to add additional components i'm sure they will make custom harnesses, kits and installation instructions to make it possible to retrofit autopilot 2.0 and 2.5 cars. As for sensory mode and the dashcam it may not be possible for autopilot 2.0 cars to have the feature due to hardware limitations. I assume that its probably a energy draw issue and maybe some type sound or detection sensors that are missing in car's manufactured before x time.
 
Would Tesla ever support the DashCam feature for AP 2.0 cars? It's too bad this feature is presently limited only for cars that have AP 2.5 or greater. Is there a hardware reason for this?

When the AP 3.0 hardware update is available, could AP 2.0 cars be upgraded to AP 3.0 thereby being able to use the DashCam feature?
This was Phil's original question. I love Tesla. I started with a Model S85, then upgraded to a S P90DL, then to my current S100D with EAP and FSD (pre paid). I do not feel Tesla has to answer these dash cam/sentry questions. But it would be nice to know info, since we "early adopters" and staunch supporters helped keep the EV dream alive.
I believe Phil and most of us are just a little frustrated to be left out of these cool innovations being made available and are just asking "is this possible?" ....Thanks to all who know so much more, especially on the technical details.
 
I do not understand everyone's animosity. Simply put Tesla made a commitment to sell a car with a full self driving option, not a feature that was just recently introduced. When Tesla finalizes the software and hardware configuration to make FSD possible. Tesla will start retrofitting cars with the FSD option. If they need to add additional components i'm sure they will make custom harnesses, kits and installation instructions to make it possible to retrofit autopilot 2.0 and 2.5 cars. As for sensory mode and the dashcam it may not be possible for autopilot 2.0 cars to have the feature due to hardware limitations. I assume that its probably a energy draw issue and maybe some type sound or detection sensors that are missing in car's manufactured before x time.
You’re new here. The odds are against Tesla making this right.
 
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This was Phil's original question. I love Tesla. I started with a Model S85, then upgraded to a S P90DL, then to my current S100D with EAP and FSD (pre paid). I do not feel Tesla has to answer these dash cam/sentry questions. But it would be nice to know info, since we "early adopters" and staunch supporters helped keep the EV dream alive.
I believe Phil and most of us are just a little frustrated to be left out of these cool innovations being made available and are just asking "is this possible?" ....Thanks to all who know so much more, especially on the technical details.
I don’t think it’s so much about feeling left out on dash cam and sentry modes. It’s more about being given the impression by Elon that we would be getting these features.

The problem is Elon not knowing what he’s talking about and misleading us with his ignorance. The letdowns are totally unnecessary and avoidable. He should at least apologize and explain why he couldn’t deliver on his tweets.
 
I don’t think it’s so much about feeling left out on dash cam and sentry modes. It’s more about being given the impression by Elon that we would be getting these features.

The problem is Elon not knowing what he’s talking about and misleading us with his ignorance. The letdowns are totally unnecessary and avoidable. He should at least apologize and explain why he couldn’t deliver on his tweets.

You can’t be serious. It’s the techie norm to over promise and shoot for the moon and see where it actually ends up. Most of the time if 2/3 of what is promised is delivered, it’s pretty good.

Has Elon (or Larry Ellison, etc) ever apologized?!?
 
You can’t be serious. It’s the techie norm to over promise and shoot for the moon and see where it actually ends up. Most of the time if 2/3 of what is promised is delivered, it’s pretty good
Has Elon (or Larry Ellison, etc) ever apologized?!?
I'm serious, but maybe I'm just old. Only a year older than Elon, but he's much more of a trend setter than I am. I'm old fashioned and like to stick to the facts.
 
It’s not that you’re getting old.

It’s that this is getting old:
- Big, strong promise first.
- Then months and years with crickets. Or, fart apps.
- Meanwhile, new hardware’s introduced, new and bigger promises are tweeted and the original promise is «forgotten» about, to the point no one even cares anymore.

Luckily for me I’ve been «spared», in that I got what I paid for. An excellent car (despite countless fixable flaws) with AP1 for a good price back then.

But times are changing fast. So is sentiment. As @Electroman ‘s postings show
 
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I guess the answer to the OP's orignal question is only *when the AP3 hardware is released as an upgrade.

... which is puportedly going to be valid for all AP2 and later owners
which you get for free if you pre-paid for FSD,
or will have to pay to upgrade ($5K have been mooted) if you only have EAP.

*when - refer Lunitiks post above
 
But it’s not just the cameras! There’s a new radar with a narrow and wide band, there’s a new redundant wire to the radar. There’s a rendundant steering servo.

So, if there's no upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW2.5, how could there be an upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW3.0 as they said a few weeks ago (even if it's only for people who bought FSD in the first place)?
 
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So, if there's no upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW2.5, how could there be an upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW3.0 as they said a few weeks ago (even if it's only for people who bought FSD in the first place)?

It would make no sense to upgrade from HW 2.0 to 2.5 as 2.5 will be just be as much of a dead end as 2.0 before long. They are introducing HW 3.0 because neither HW 2.0 or 2.5 can adequately offer the processing resources to most efficiently implement the EAP/FSD that were promised to both HW 2.0 and HW 2.5 customers.

The only fair thing to do here is to keep the promises made to HW 2.0 and HW 2.5 customers that if a hardware update is needed to implement the promised EAP/FSD features that Tesla would then offer such a hardware update.

Elon has stated that by the end of the year the promised EAP/FSD features will be fully implemented, though not perfect as the features will be in development. Both HW 2.0 and 2.5 customers were essentially promised the same EAP/FSD features so I would like to think it means Tesla would make available a hardware upgrade path to HW 3.0 to both HW 2.0 and 2.5 customers. My understanding is that this hardware upgrade will be free for those HW 2.0/2.5 customers who bought FSD and would cost about $4-5K for those who did not buy it but were still promised that their cars are FSD capable after the payment of a set fee that was published.

Also for those with HW 2.0 and 2.5 cars, the values of those cars would plummet if there is no viable HW 3.0 upgrade path. I hope they do the right thing here or they will have a much bigger can of worms than the P85D horsepower situation.
 
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It would make no sense to upgrade from HW 2.0 to 2.5 as 2.5 will be just be as much of a dead end as 2.0 before long. They are introducing HW 3.0 because neither HW 2.0 or 2.5 can adequately offer the processing resources to most efficiently implement the EAP/FSD that were promised to both HW 2.0 and HW 2.5 customers.

The only fair thing to do here is to keep the promises made to HW 2.0 and HW 2.5 customers that if a hardware update is needed to implement the promised EAP/FSD features that Tesla would then offer such a hardware update.

Elon has stated that by the end of the year the promised EAP/FSD features will be fully implemented, though not perfect as the features will be in development. Both HW 2.0 and 2.5 customers were essentially promised the same EAP/FSD features so I would like to think it means Tesla would make available a hardware upgrade path to HW 3.0 to both HW 2.0 and 2.5 customers. My understanding is that this hardware upgrade will be free for those HW 2.0/2.5 customers who bought FSD and would cost about $4-5K for those who did not buy it but were still promised that their cars are FSD capable after the payment of a set fee that was published.
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Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk
Replying to @SmileSimplify @j_brorsson and
~6 months before it is in all new production cars. No change to sensors. This is simple replacement of the Autopilot computer. Will be done free of charge for those who ordered full self-driving.
This is what I find scary...
 
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So, if there's no upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW2.5, how could there be an upgrade path from HW2.0 to HW3.0 as they said a few weeks ago (even if it's only for people who bought FSD in the first place)?

Because there isn't one? They are going to maybe, maybe do a computer swap sometime in the distant future, but they are going to do all the other things that came with 2.5, it's just not going to happen.
 
All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware
The Tesla Team October 19, 2016
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Self-driving vehicles will play a crucial role in improving transportation safety and accelerating the world’s transition to a sustainable future. Full autonomy will enable a Tesla to be substantially safer than a human driver, lower the financial cost of transportation for those who own a car and provide low-cost on-demand mobility for those who do not.

We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. Eight surround cameras provide 360 degree visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and soft objects at nearly twice the distance of the prior system. A forward-facing radar with enhanced processing provides additional data about the world on a redundant wavelength, capable of seeing through heavy rain, fog, dust and even the car ahead.

To make sense of all of this data, a new onboard computer with more than 40 times the computing power of the previous generation runs the new Tesla-developed neural net for vision, sonar and radar processing software. Together, this system provides a view of the world that a driver alone cannot access, seeing in every direction simultaneously and on wavelengths that go far beyond the human senses.



Model S and Model X vehicles with this new hardware are already in production, and customers can purchase one today.

Before activating the features enabled by the new hardware, we will further calibrate the system using millions of miles of real-world driving to ensure significant improvements to safety and convenience. While this is occurring, Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. As these features are robustly validated we will enable them over the air, together with a rapidly expanding set of entirely new features. As always, our over-the-air software updates will keep customers at the forefront of technology and continue to make every Tesla, including those equipped with first-generation Autopilot and earlier cars, more capable over time.

"Lest we forget, the date at the top 2016"