Would Elon Bring a Fleet of Lincoln Navigators to a Meeting with Google?

[22522]

Serious question - what do you do for a living, how old are you, what's your education level and what did you study? I'm really curious.

Fair question. This should be enough for inference: Global Model Confirms: Cool Roofs Can Offset Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Mitigate Global Warming | Berkeley Lab

There was some follow up modeling that said if there was a lot of soot in the air, it might not be so true. With the recent banning of diesel in cities and countries, and China's obsessive EV push, this one is probably better.

A lot of people read this:

I prefer the Economist, for the captions on the images mostly. Think Henry Ford's book, Today and Tomorrow is the best business book I have read, and Michael Porter's The Competitive Advantage of Nations is the best business article I have read. The Competitive Advantage of Nations

When I lived in New Jersey, The Star Ledger did not carry The Far Side by Gary Larson, so I subscribed to the Washington Post.

As far as education goes, when choosing a grad school, my father said, "You should go to the best school that pays you." I went to the best school.

The point being that very few people want Tesla to be more successful than I want them to be.

People draw hard and lasting lines based on class alignment. It is some sort of group dynamic thing. I don't want Tesla to be on the wrong side of that. Like Mark was.

 

[b team]

Fair question. This should be enough for inference: Global Model Confirms: Cool Roofs Can Offset Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Mitigate Global Warming | Berkeley Lab

View attachment 238682

There was some follow up modeling that said if there was a lot of soot in the air, it might not be so true. With the recent banning of diesel in cities and countries, and China's obsessive EV push, this one is probably better.

A lot of people read this:

View attachment 238683

I prefer the Economist, for the captions on the images mostly. Think Henry Ford's book, Today and Tomorrow is the best business book I have read, and Michael Porter's The Competitive Advantage of Nations is the best business article I have read. The Competitive Advantage of Nations

When I lived in New Jersey, The Star Ledger did not carry The Far Side by Gary Larson, so I subscribed to the Washington Post.

As far as education goes, when choosing a grad school, my father said, "You should go to the best school that pays you." I went to the best school.

The point being that very few people want Tesla to be more successful than I want them to be.

People draw hard and lasting lines based on class alignment. It is some sort of group dynamic thing. I don't want Tesla to be on the wrong side of that. Like Mark was.

Wait, you're Steven Chu??

 

[22522]

Wait, you're Steven Chu??

Shh!

 

[Vitold]

Trying to sort things out. There is a story of Mark Fields bringing a fleet of Lincoln Navigators to a meeting at Google. It was a near final step in an agreement for Google to close a deal to provide self driving technology to Ford. Mr. Fields, and his posse, were excited about how Wall Street would respond to this agreement.

So Mr. Fields goes back to Dearborn and starts working on a slide deck so that he can present this great agreement to the board at Ford, his bosses. The meeting is scheduled and he has practiced several times.

3 Days before the board meeting, he gets a call from Google, "We are not going to do it. Sorry."

Let's go to the theme that contempt destroys relationships... It is actually the perception of contempt that destroys. It might even be a misidentification, but the outcome is the same.

I think Mr. Fields was just blind to the importance of the environment to Google.
But it looked and felt like contempt. Google said, "Not a match."

Elon is kind of acting like Mr. Fields in his ignorance of the value of money to the middle class. He is doing this in two ways, maybe because he is paying too much attention to Wall Street, like Mr. Fields did just before Google walked away.

With Mr. Fields, it was crushing. With Elon it might be death from 100,000 cuts.

Here are the two things Elon is doing that put him in opposition to his customers, the car is great by the way:

1. Putting a $1000 fee on choice. There need to be two free colors, and one of them needs to be low maintenance. People who spend their work days with little discretion cherish the opportunity to make choices outside of work. Elon should not make it punitive. Today he is. The original contract for the deposit did not say "Black Paint: Standard." Also black paint is worse for global warming. The last Energy Secretary almost said you could make a dent in it by painting every roof white. So it appears that Elon is treating middle class income, middle class children and the environment with contempt by punishing deviation from black with a $1000 fine.
2. Running the fully loaded battery longer than he has to. That puts the price at $50K, if you don't want black. It also consumes more batteries, lithium, nickel and cobalt than you have to. Those resources would be better applied to semi trucks. He has lost sight of the idea that businesses are in place to efficiently serve society... All spun around and confused. And he is taking more money than he has to, from people who need it. Treating the customer's money with disrespect, or contempt. Treating the environment with contempt. Acting like a car dealer. Morphing into a car dealer, right before our eyes.

Elon please look in the mirror. Your design and manufacturing teams have done a spectacular job. The car is wonderful. Don't morph into just another car dealer. Don't repeat Henry Ford's greatest mistake. People have long memories if they paint you in opposition to their families. You kind of live there for eternity. These two business practices make it hard to paint you any other way but confused and disrespectful.

They are pretty easy to fix. You have a great product. Please spend more time talking to JB about what Tesla's mission is, and less time listening to MBAs from second class schools.

(This is a little extreme, considering all that Elon has done, but it is setting up an oppositional dynamic that will be hard to change. Sell more stock if you have to, but don't get crosswise with your customers. Move to the same side of the table and help them meet their goals.)

1) If it makes you feel better just think that Model 3 is 36k and you can get $1000 discount if you choose black.

2) 310 range is not over the top. There are many factors that make it practical:

Resale value
Charging rate
Cold weather range
Longer life

 

[R.S]

I am starting to lose perspective. Are all these people who are complaining serious? Do they have large short positions in Tesla stock? Is someone forcing them to buy a Model 3? I hope some enterprising individual launches a site dedicated to bitching about the Model 3, then hopefully we will be rid of this pox.

The problem is the year long overhype.

I basically spent a year trying to convince people that the bigger battery option won't be cheaper than $7,500, that AP and FSD won't be cheaper than on the Model S, that options don't necessarily need to be 50% of what they are on the S and X. And that we shouldn't expect the base version to have 250 miles of range.

And I got asked the same question you raised. Do I have a short position on Tesla? And of course also other ones like: Don't I understand the message Tesla stands for? Or how cheap batteries really are? Or that the Model 3 is mass manufactured?

And now that Tesla has delivered all they ever promised, some people are pissed. Because they though they would surely get the larger range version, with AP, FSD and all the premium features, cool wheels and a color of their choosing, for less than 45k. Now they actually need to pay 10-15k more? Bummer...

 

[b team]

The problem is the year long overhype.

I basically spent a year trying to convince people that the bigger battery option won't be cheaper than $7,500, that AP and FSD won't be cheaper than on the Model S, that options don't necessarily need to be 50% of what they are on the S and X. And that we shouldn't expect the base version to have 250 miles of range.

And I got asked the same question you raised. Do I have a short position on Tesla? And of course also other ones like: Don't I understand the message Tesla stands for? Or how cheap batteries really are? Or that the Model 3 is mass manufactured?

And now that Tesla has delivered all they ever promised, some people are pissed. Because they though they would surely get the larger range version, with AP, FSD and all the premium features, cool wheels and a color of their choosing, for less than 45k. Now they actually need to pay 10-15k more? Bummer...

Disillusioning the masses is a thankless task. I think the price is great considering that there is well over $10K of fuel savings baked into the car over its lifespan. It's exactly what Tesla promised.

 

[McRat]

The problem is the year long overhype.

I basically spent a year trying to convince people that the bigger battery option won't be cheaper than $7,500, that AP and FSD won't be cheaper than on the Model S, that options don't necessarily need to be 50% of what they are on the S and X. And that we shouldn't expect the base version to have 250 miles of range.

And I got asked the same question you raised. Do I have a short position on Tesla? And of course also other ones like: Don't I understand the message Tesla stands for? Or how cheap batteries really are? Or that the Model 3 is mass manufactured?

And now that Tesla has delivered all they ever promised, some people are pissed. Because they though they would surely get the larger range version, with AP, FSD and all the premium features, cool wheels and a color of their choosing, for less than 45k. Now they actually need to pay 10-15k more? Bummer...

There are many folk who wrote similar opinions on this site and others.

Personally, I guessed the initial base price right on the nose at $49k prior to the reveal last Friday.

EVs remain more expensive than their ICE counterparts. All the marketing in the world is not changing that, but time will.

Automakers know this, hence why very few of them make a serious EV effort and some make no effort at all except for political lobbying or marketing concept cars. Toyota's CEO came right out said it, so did Fiat's. EVs do not make financial sense yet.

 

[b team]

There are many folk who wrote similar opinions on this site and others.

Personally, I guessed the initial base price right on the nose at $49k prior to the reveal last Friday.

EVs remain more expensive than their ICE counterparts. All the marketing in the world is not changing that, but time will.

Automakers know this, hence why very few of them make a serious EV effort and some make no effort at all except for political lobbying or marketing concept cars. Toyota's CEO came right out said it, so did Fiat's. EVs do not make financial sense yet.

They do not make financial sense to manufacturers with massive investments in legacy technology. To a startup and to consumers, they can. Two totally different questions.

 

[sperkin]

1. Putting a $1000 fee on choice. There need to be two free colors, and one of them needs to be low maintenance. People who spend their work days with little discretion cherish the opportunity to make choices outside of work. Elon should not make it punitive. Today he is. The original contract for the deposit did not say "Black Paint: Standard." Also black paint is worse for global warming. The last Energy Secretary almost said you could make a dent in it by painting every roof white. So it appears that Elon is treating middle class income, middle class children and the environment with contempt by punishing deviation from black with a $1000 fine.)

What he should have done is announce the car at $36k and make all colors free or cut $1k in corners. The add colors are not an extra $1k fee, it's basically a $1k discount if you pick black.

 

[kzod]

HEY 22522,
Great news. There are plenty of other car companies that you can do business with. That is how we punish businesses we don't like anymore. We take our business elsewhere! If Tesla is too much of a capitalist swine for your liking buy a Lincoln Navigator instead (A Lada perhaps?)! Not green enough? Buy a Leaf, Bolt or an i3. What?? You want the Model 3 more than every other option? Then either wait for the version you feel offers the right value or take the bus buddy.

 

[McRat]

They do not make financial sense to manufacturers with massive investments in legacy technology. To a startup and to consumers, they can. Two totally different questions.

After 7 years of multiple choices of electromotive powertrain vehicles, which are increasing in demand as a trend, even in times of low gas prices, we are still <1% of the cars on the road.

As much as I believe in Tesla Motors mission, and hope for their success, they are not profitable yet after a decade. Conventional automakers are holding their cards very close to their vests about profitability of their PHEV/EREV/BEV programs.

Things are changing though. A Volt today has a bigger battery, 50% more range, weighs less, and costs less than in late 2010.
Tesla's prices have not changed an incredible amount on the S/X, but the value per dollar of the cars has improved.

2018 is going to be a watershed year in the automotive world. The Model 3 will be on the road in significant numbers, there will be more players, and the first truly advanced driver's safety aids are coming very soon. Not just EVs either. Some of the systems you're going to see in retail cars are going to blow your mind.

 

[22522]

HEY 22522,
Great news. There are plenty of other car companies that you can do business with. That is how we punish businesses we don't like anymore. We take our business elsewhere! If Tesla is too much of a capitalist swine for your liking buy a Lincoln Navigator instead (A Lada perhaps?)! Not green enough? Buy a Leaf, Bolt or an i3. What?? You want the Model 3 more than every other option? Then either wait for the version you feel offers the right value or take the bus buddy.

It actually seems OK if they sell 70,000 loaded Model 3s to walk in customers in February, March, April and May. Tesla needs to drive traffic to address the folks who do not order cars.

Once the factory is capable of producing both versions, one would logically expect the deposit order to influence what is produced.

Learn something new every day.

 

[McRat]

It actually seems OK if they sell 70,000 loaded Model 3s to walk in customers in February, March, April and May. Tesla needs to drive traffic to address the folks who do not order cars.

Once the factory is capable of producing both versions, one would logically expect the deposit order to influence what is produced.

Learn something new every day.

There is no reason not to order a Tesla once they are caught up, unless you are looking for a bargain on an inventory unit. Inventory units are not always what they appear to be. I was often wondered if some were refusals at the delivery, or other customer ordered cars that somehow returned to Tesla as new.

Now we have the answer. Why would Tesla configure an inventory car with FSD when it does nothing yet? Just to demonstrate it does nothing to potential buyers?

Model S 100D 5YJSA1E29HF191615 | Tesla

 

[Johann Koeber]

I haven't driven the car (obviously) but what I can see now:

GREAT VALUE FOR THE MONEY