Would FSD Beta Solve This Problem?

[PianoAl]

On a drive I make frequently, the car does a fantastic job doing the driving on the two-lane road. I drive sixty miles each way, and there are only a few places where the car makes a mistake (going into a left-turn lane). (Please don't tell me it's not designed for that. I'm always paying attention with my hand on the wheel.)

However, these signs are a problem:

80% of the time the car interprets that sign as the regular speed limit, not a limit for trucks, and I must depress the accelerator, which turns off auto braking.

Here are my questions:

1. If I got into the FSD beta program, would it solve that issue?

2. In the FSD beta program, can one choose to not drive in FSD beta mode (that is, just have the car drive the way it does now)?

 

[DirtyT3sla]

1. It would still read that as the speed limit and try to lower to that speed, but with beta, you can set the speed as high as you want on any road vs the +5 limit on undivided roads.

2. You can turn off beta in the settings via a toggle and turn it back on whenever you want.

 

[PianoAl]

1. It would still read that as the speed limit and try to lower to that speed, but with beta, you can set the speed as high as you want on any road vs the +5 limit on undivided roads.

2. You can turn off beta in the settings via a toggle and turn it back on whenever you want.

Interesting, thanks. I've wanted to stay away from the beta (too tense), but maybe I'll apply.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Bear in mind that if your car uses radar now, installing an FSD Beta build will disable radar and use vision only, even when you’re not using FSD Beta. Your signature says your car is an early 2020 Model 3; I don’t remember when they switched to vision only in production cars.

 

[PianoAl]

Bear in mind that if your car uses radar now, installing an FSD Beta build will disable radar and use vision only, even when you’re not using FSD Beta. Your signature says your car is an early 2020 Model 3; I don’t remember when they switched to vision only in production cars.

Good to know. Quite sure I have radar.

From my intergoogling, the consensus is that vision only is as good or better than radar.

OTOH, it's working so well (with rare or no phantom braking) that I'm hesitant to change anything.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Good to know. Quite sure I have radar.

From my intergoogling, the consensus is that vision only is as good or better than radar.

OTOH, it's working so well (with rare or no phantom braking) that I'm hesitant to change anything.

I only mentioned it because some people have reported degradation of AP performance when switching from radar to vision. It’s possible that was true at some point but has since been fixed. Both of our cars still have radar so I can’t speak from my own experience, though our Model 3 is in the FSD Beta queue and I’ll hopefully be able to find out for myself someday.

 

[VanFriscia]

Good to know. Quite sure I have radar.

From my intergoogling, the consensus is that vision only is as good or better than radar.

OTOH, it's working so well (with rare or no phantom braking) that I'm hesitant to change anything.

I have a radar-equipped M3 and am enrolled in FSD Beta. Please be aware that phantom braking remains a consistent annoyance with FSDb. However, I don't think that's a vision vs. radar problem - it's an FSDb problem. I rarely get PB events when I'm driving on the highway (which uses the old AP stack vs. FSDb), but I get it with quite often in city driving, particularly on roads that are 35+ MPH. For reasons unknown, there seems to be a great deal of variance between those who experience PB often vs. those who rarely see it. It's oddly inconsistent.

Of course, as others have said, you could just turn FSDb off if it ends up driving you bonkers.

 

[PianoAl]

For reasons unknown, there seems to be a great deal of variance between those who experience PB often vs. those who rarely see it.

I rarely see it, and my current guess at this discrepancy is

(1) People have widely different ideas about what "slam on the brakes" means. For example, I've seen vids in which someone says the car slammed on the brakes, but the car's speed only drops by 5-10 mph. Doesn't explain all instances.

(2) I do autopilot with my foot over the accelerator and push it if the car is slowing with no visible reason. Still, that rarely happens.

Thanks for the info on radar vs vision only. Current plan: see how the next big FSD release is, and if it's quite good, go for it.

 

[Yelobird]

I have a radar-equipped M3 and am enrolled in FSD Beta. Please be aware that phantom braking remains a consistent annoyance with FSDb. However, I don't think that's a vision vs. radar problem - it's an FSDb problem. I rarely get PB events when I'm driving on the highway (which uses the old AP stack vs. FSDb), but I get it with quite often in city driving, particularly on roads that are 35+ MPH. For reasons unknown, there seems to be a great deal of variance between those who experience PB often vs. those who rarely see it. It's oddly inconsistent.

Of course, as others have said, you could just turn FSDb off if it ends up driving you bonkers.

For clarity there will Always be more variables on city streets (FSTb) vs highway (AP). On city streets you have Thousands of additional random variables compared to a highway majority moving in a unison direction without pedestrians or directional changes. It’s a location difference for PB not the system.

 

[VanFriscia]

For clarity there will Always be more variables on city streets (FSTb) vs highway (AP). On city streets you have Thousands of additional random variables compared to a highway majority moving in a unison direction without pedestrians or directional changes. It’s a location difference for PB not the system.

Agreed...but I have a suspicion that the main thing holding back the merged v11 single stack is phantom braking. NoAP generally works pretty well already, aside from occasionally dumb lane changes and issues with merging traffic. In the absence of all those other variables you mentioned for highway driving, what could the problem(s) be? My money's on PB.

Just speculation, of course!

 

[PianoAl]

Bear in mind that if your car uses radar now, installing an FSD Beta build will disable radar and use vision only

Well, with today's installation of 2022.20.9 my radar went away anyway, so that eliminates the only reason to avoid FSD.

To confirm, if I get FSD, then when I turn FSD off, the car should act just the way it does now.

Except for this one speed limit issue, it drives so well, I don't want to take any chance that installing the FSD version would cause new issues.

 

[Dewg]

Well, with today's installation of 2022.20.9 my radar went away anyway, so that eliminates the only reason to avoid FSD.

To confirm, if I get FSD, then when I turn FSD off, the car should act just the way it does now.

Except for this one speed limit issue, it drives so well, I don't want to take any chance that installing the FSD version would cause new issues.

It will cause new issues. But that's the point of the Beta, testing and reporting issues. Please bear that in mind before requesting an invite.

 

[PianoAl]

It will cause new issues. But that's the point of the Beta, testing and reporting issues. Please bear that in mind before requesting an invite.

True. I'm requesting it for another purpose. "Off label use," in a sense.

If I get accepted, but don't turn it on, what release will I have? Am I likely to have issues with that?

Bottom line, my speed limit issue is only mildly annoying, and I wouldn't want to risk any problems that are worse.

 

[Dewg]

True. I'm requesting it for another purpose. "Off label use," in a sense.

If I get accepted, but don't turn it on, what release will I have? Am I likely to have issues with that?

Bottom line, my speed limit issue is only mildly annoying, and I wouldn't want to risk any problems that are worse.

You will have the FSD Beta firmware. The toggle switch for turning FSD Beta on and off only effects the stack you are running on. While on the freeway/highway, you are on the AP/NoA stack. While on city streets, you are on the FSD Beta stack while FSD Beta is toggled on. With it off, you will be on the AP/NoA stack while on city streets, and will not have any Autosteer on City Streets functions.

 

[Raurele]

Mine doesn’t ever switch to those… and they are every other sign on my commute.

 

[LordOfLight]

Does FSD Beta still have problems recognising speed signs? I would have thought that that's the first thing that should work when driving autonomously. Does it at least slow down before the speed sign? Can someone answer who uses FSD Beta

 

[jabloomf1230]

Does FSD Beta still have problems recognising speed signs? I would have thought that that's the first thing that should work when driving autonomously. Does it at least slow down before the speed sign? Can someone answer who uses FSD Beta

FSD beta uses a combination of map data and vision to maintain consistency with speed limits. If these two data sources conflict, behavior can be inconsistent. A common symptom is when making a turn off a high speed highway to a residential road that has a much lower speed limit. FSD beta may continue to follow the higher speed limit until either it encounters a speed limit sign or a new tagged node in the map dataset.

As to your other question, the answer is that FSD beta starts slowing down at the speed limit sign and recent versions reach the new lower speed limit far too slowly.

 

[PianoAl]

I drove this route today for the first time with FSD beta, and it indeed solved the problem.