Would it hurt Tesla to put one J1772 Port at every Supercharger location

[Curt]

I'd also like to see more J1772 stations out there - but 7kW is just too ridiculously low for road trip charging.

So, I'm taking matters into my own hands, and I hope some of you will join me. I am negotiating with Sun Country Highway to sponsor and place new CS-100s (80 Amp J1772) at locations about 120 miles from my home in several directions.

Sun Country Highway had been strictly in Canada, but they are now actively working on expansion into the US, starting with Washington, California, and the East Coast. Find details here: http://suncountryhighway.com/chargers/sponsor-a-charger/

 

[AmpedRealtor]

It would be good public relations for Tesla to put one J1772 port at Supercharger locations. Roadster owners could charge as well as other EV drivers just as a matter of support for traveling EV drivers. Some nominal fee could be charged if necessary, less for Roadster owners than others but it would be worth the cost of the EVSE just for the general good will.

Don Zacher

Do you want to be the Model S owner waiting behind a Leaf while it charges for 3 hours at a supercharger? Superchargers are for fast charging. CHAdeMO might make more sense, as it's DC and high current, but I still don't want to be that Model S owner stuck behind a Leaf waiting to use a supercharger for which I paid $2,000 to use.

 

[dsm363]

Do you want to be the Model S owner waiting behind a Leaf while it charges for 3 hours at a supercharger? Superchargers are for fast charging. CHAdeMO might make more sense, as it's DC and high current, but I still don't want to be that Model S owner stuck behind a Leaf waiting to use a supercharger for which I paid $2,000 to use.

He seems to be saying in addition to Supercharger spots so no spots would be blocked. If the Model S didn't have Supercharging enabled or a Roadster was there then yes, they could be blocked.

 

[Zythryn]

He seems to be saying in addition to Supercharger spots so no spots would be blocked. If the Model S didn't have Supercharging enabled or a Roadster was there then yes, they could be blocked.

If Tesla is putting in the J1772 then I strongly suspect the will need a parking space for cars to park in while using it.
How happy would Model S owners be if Tesla had 3 superchargers and one J1772 instead of 4 superchargers?
Tesla's biggest limiting factor is real estate. They get a limited number of parking spaces. Using 10%, 12.5%, 16.7% or 25% of the available supercharger spots for much slower level 2 charger and then paying for competitor's cars to fuel up, is non-productive to say the least.

 

[dsm363]

That's why I said 'in addition to'. A J1772 station would be an additional parking spot and not shared with a Supercharger. Doesn't look like Tesla will be doing this anyway. You could easily make an access controlled station anyway in order to not pay for other cars. Owners could pay then then their credit card refunded. Much like banks do for ATM fees sometimes.

 

[bonnie]

We just seem to repeat this thread every three or four months. I'm not even going to try anymore to point out there are threads on this topic where all of the above have been discussed. Because clearly everyone wants to discuss it again.

Have at it!

 

[djp]

I've done a few long distance road trips on Sun Country Highway, and while the 70 amp L2 stations make it possible, it's not very fun or practical.

Driving speed is limited to about 60mph - anything higher is counterproductive since you'll spend more time charging than saved driving. Even then you're still looking at equal time between driving and charging. Waiting three hours to recharge after driving three hours is something that only the hardest core EV enthusiast could enjoy.

Tesla's strategy makes a lot of sense. Superchargers are positioned for long distance travel, at highway rest stops where L3 is ideal. L2 is better suited to destination charging.

 

[Curt]

Superchargers are positioned for long distance travel, at highway rest stops where L3 is ideal. L2 is better suited to destination charging.

So, what are saying, @djp?

Now that Superchargers exist, the Roadster is no longer any good for travel beyond a single-charge radius?

I simply don't agree with this. I enjoy my time in my Roadster, and 70 Amp level 2 is as good as it gets. Literally. There is no better option for the Roadster.

 

[Zythryn]

That's why I said 'in addition to'. A J1772 station would be an additional parking spot and not shared with a Supercharger. Doesn't look like Tesla will be doing this anyway. You could easily make an access controlled station anyway in order to not pay for other cars. Owners could pay then then their credit card refunded. Much like banks do for ATM fees sometimes.

Yes, but where does the spot come from? Magic?
Either Tesla gets permission to install the J1772 on a parking stall that is not part of their agreement with the owner or they have to negotiate an extra spot.
If the get a free spot, can Tesla require it be labeled EV only parking? If not, do we get more bad will than good from J1772 users because the spots are ICED?
If a free spot isn't granted, why in the world would Tesla not put a supercharger in the spot?

 

[djp]

So, what are saying, @djp?

Now that Superchargers exist, the Roadster is no longer any good for travel beyond a single-charge radius?

I simply don't agree with this. I enjoy my time in my Roadster, and 70 Amp level 2 is as good as it gets. Literally. There is no better option for the Roadster.

I'm saying the Roadster isn't designed for long distance road trips. You can do it, but it takes 10 hours to travel the same distance as a Supercharged Model S or ICE can do in 5 or 6. As much as I love my Roadster, I'd rather not spend 10 hours sitting at L2 chargers and drafting trucks below the speed limit just to get to Montreal in one day.

L3 is the minimum for long distance travel, and in my view highway service stops should have L3 only to be practical.

I do appreciate all the 70A chargers that SCH has installed. I'd love to see 30A J1772 phased out as a standard and the country blanketed with 70/80A L2 stations at every hotel and restaurant - which would definitively help us Roadster owners on road trips.

 

[Dave EV]

I'm saying the Roadster isn't designed for long distance road trips. You can do it, but it takes 10 hours to travel the same distance as a Supercharged Model S or ICE can do in 5 or 6. As much as I love my Roadster, I'd rather not spend 10 hours sitting at L2 chargers and drafting trucks below the speed limit just to get to Montreal in one day.

For that reason, if one were to install L2 stations, it would make the most sense to install them near urban areas and not necessarily in places where it would enable cross-country road trips. They would be there to mainly support regional driving and provide backup stations for vehicles who perhaps don't need to charge at full SuperCharger speeds. Hawthorne, Gilroy, San Juan Capistrano all stand out as locations where it would be useful to have L2 stations in addition to SuperChargers.

 

[dsm363]

Yes, but where does the spot come from? Magic?
Either Tesla gets permission to install the J1772 on a parking stall that is not part of their agreement with the owner or they have to negotiate an extra spot.
If the get a free spot, can Tesla require it be labeled EV only parking? If not, do we get more bad will than good from J1772 users because the spots are ICED?
If a free spot isn't granted, why in the world would Tesla not put a supercharger in the spot?

Well I didn't bring up this proposal. Of course the spot isn't 'magic' and Tesla would have to negotiate an additional spot and mark it as such. Even their Supercharger spots can be legally ICEd in certain states.
Tesla might not put a Supercharger in that spot because it costs more to do so or they already have enough spots for that location.

This was proposed as something nice to do for Roadster owners and how it might happen if Tesla wanted to do this. Doesn't look like Tesla is interested in doing this anyway.

 

[Zythryn]

...
This was proposed as something nice to do for Roadster owners and how it might happen if Tesla wanted to do this. Doesn't look like Tesla is interested in doing this anyway.

I agree it would be nice. The logistics are troublesome though.
And if it was a J1772 my guess is roadster owners would find them in use, more often than not, with Leafs, Volts or other plugin vehicles.
Far better, if they have free, available space and don't need another supercharger, to have a simple NEMA 14-50 outlet.

 

[dsm363]

You would lose 30A by putting in a 14-50 outlet and that could also be tied up. I believe the Roadster can charge up to 70A so an accessed controlled station would be better. A Roadster HPC would be best as that would keep any other cars even the Model S from using it. The logistics and cost of reserving a space that would be rarely used is likely not worth it for Tesla. Would be great for Roadster owners though.

 

[abasile]

You would lose 30A by putting in a 14-50 outlet and that could also be tied up.

LOL, yes, I have a 14-50 adaptor for my LEAF.

 

[bobinfla]

There are what 2500 roadsters? and shrinking.

I hope not, If my Roadster shrinks even a little bit, I'll never be able to climb in or out :scared:

 

[Seattle]

The obvious answer to me is that at every super charger have a native roadster 70 amp plug, and also a regular tesla format 80 amp plug (somehow signed so people didn't get confused about this being a supercharger spot). Putting j1772 is just asking for non-t cars to block us.

So there must be a reason not to do this? Sure some places don't have extra parking spaces, but some places do have extras.

 

[cwerdna]

They could partner with "Chargepoint", while the venue owner decides to charge for the power or not, tesla would just supply the AC connection/meter... That would work.

They could. Or, for now, each of you could submit a request at the desired location at Tell Us Where - ChargePoint. The thing is, AFAIK, the property/venue owner needs to foot the bill for the installation, electricity, upkeep, etc. AFAIK, Chargepoint doesn't own the stations on their network, except maybe the ones at their headquarters in Campbell, CA.

- - - Updated - - -

I do appreciate all the 70A chargers that SCH has installed. I'd love to see 30A J1772 phased out as a standard and the country blanketed with 70/80A L2 stations at every hotel and restaurant - which would definitively help us Roadster owners on road trips.

Would be nice, but the higher amperage would only benefit those w/on-board chargers that are greater than 6.x kW, which would namely be Tesla-branded vehicles or others w/their on-board charger (e.g. Toyota Rav4 EV w/a 10 kW OBC.)

My '13 Leaf can't even pull a full 30 amps at 208 volts (typical commercial power). I see mine pulling ~5.7 to 6.0 kW @ work on our 208 volt Chargepoint L2 EVSEs.

And, there are still a whole bunch of cars being sold as new w/only 3.x kW OBCs or less (e.g. Spark EV, Volt, Plug-in Prius (seems to pull only ~2.1 kW @ 208 volts), Ford C-Max/Fusion Energis I believe, etc.)

Oh yeah, unfortunately, AFAIK, all of the L2 stations manufactured by Chargepoint can only do 30 amps max.

 

[gavine]

Being a 60kWh Model S owner without SuperCharging, a level-2 at SuperCharger sites would be a very welcome prospect. I rarely charge outside of my garage (only did it twice is 18K miles), but the SuperCharger sites are so well-thought-out and easy to find that I thing this would be great. I realize it probably won't happen, but there are some holes in my area without chargers but with SuperChargers in perfect spots. If/when I need to charge, it's only to add 15 to 30 miles just as a buffer. I don't roadtrip in my car because I don't have SuperCharging.

The other nice thing that this would do for Tesla is help accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, which is their mission from the start. Anything Tesla does to help EV's become more popular and user-friendly would apply to their mission. Also, as mentioned above, Leaf/i3/Spark, etc. owners will see these beautiful Model S's rolling in and out in 20-minute increments and this will spread the idea of how great SuperCharging is. Also, those owners might talk with Model S owners and see their cars which will get them more interested and possibly turn-into customers.

The last point I'd like to make is with the Model 3....If SuperCharging will be an option with the Model 3, this would be a good selling point to get potential Model 3 buyers onboard by showing that they can still charge, albeit slowly, at SuperCharger locations. If they find themselves charging often on L2's at SC locations, they will be more-inclined to upgrade to SC.

I realize there are issues with the idea and I'm sure if it were being considered, it is very low priority. But, being a non-SC owner, I would love to see this happen.

 

[TexasEV]

Being a 60kWh Model S owner without SuperCharging, a level-2 at SuperCharger sites would be a very welcome prospect. I rarely charge outside of my garage (only did it twice is 18K miles), but the SuperCharger sites are so well-thought-out and easy to find that I thing this would be great. I realize it probably won't happen, but there are some holes in my area without chargers but with SuperChargers in perfect spots. If/when I need to charge, it's only to add 15 to 30 miles just as a buffer. I don't roadtrip in my car because I don't have SuperCharging.

The other nice thing that this would do for Tesla is help accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, which is their mission from the start. Anything Tesla does to help EV's become more popular and user-friendly would apply to their mission. Also, as mentioned above, Leaf/i3/Spark, etc. owners will see these beautiful Model S's rolling in and out in 20-minute increments and this will spread the idea of how great SuperCharging is. Also, those owners might talk with Model S owners and see their cars which will get them more interested and possibly turn-into customers.

The last point I'd like to make is with the Model 3....If SuperCharging will be an option with the Model 3, this would be a good selling point to get potential Model 3 buyers onboard by showing that they can still charge, albeit slowly, at SuperCharger locations. If they find themselves charging often on L2's at SC locations, they will be more-inclined to upgrade to SC.

I realize there are issues with the idea and I'm sure if it were being considered, it is very low priority. But, being a non-SC owner, I would love to see this happen.

A better solution would be for you to activate supercharging in your 60.