Would you buy a CPO without Autopilot?

[GatorGambit]

Some background...I have an inventory P90DL that I'm scheduled to pick up in a few days. I'm coming from a BMW X5, which has been great, but I've wanted a Tesla for years, and I wanted another performance car (had an STI before the BMW). Since I've had time to think about it, I've started to get cold feet on it, in part because I use the third row seats in the BMW every once in a while, and in part because the practical side of me is having a bit of sticker shock on the price.

I'm looking at some of the CPO cars available, particularly those with rear facing seats. It seems like the cars with the options and color combinations I like are 2013s, which do not have Autopilot. I don't take many road trips and my commute is short enough (25-30 miles a day round trip) that I don't need to use highways. Would you buy a Model S without Autopilot? Do you think lack of Autopilot will make a CPO Model S depreciate faster?

 

[GoTslaGo]

Have you thought about an X P90DL, or X P90D (I believe 10k cheaper), or X 90D (even "cheaper")?

Going from X5 to Model X maybe a better transition than to an S. FWIW I too drive an X5, and much prefer the S (my wife's).

You can always buy without certain options (like AP, 2500), but remember the newer models have the AP hardware. We optioned our S 70D with a premium package to get the powered lift back hardware. If we bought now, we would get the premium pkg again for the Biodefense mode "Hardware" (HEPA filter) and powered lift back.

I'm biased toward AutoPilot so I would not buy a CPO without AP, but that's just me. FWIW wk057 (a longtime Tesla hacker) added AP to his (wife's?) model S. His estimate for cost of materials and labor for retrofitting the stuff was something like 50k. Now I could be wrong about the number, but it was high.

Good Luck, and welcome to TMC!

 

[ChadS]

Autopilot is pretty cool, but given your driving habits it absolutely is not a necessity. (Neither of my Teslas have it, and I am doing just fine even though I DO take road trips). I wouldn't avoid it on purpose, but it sounds like you have a reason to get a car without it, so that sounds fine to me, especially if you save money but won't lose much of the experience.

Cars without autopilot are indeed worth less than cars with it...but the big depreciation hit has already happened, so I would think a car that already is priced lower for not having it would depreciate slower than a car with autopilot. Especially once AP 2.0 hardware becomes available.

 

[DÆrik]

To be honest, I wouldn't have bought my car without autopilot. While it would probably depreciate a little faster without it (since your buying inventory/CPO, I wouldn't worry about depreciation as much), I would be more concerned about not having the feature or the added safety sensor suite it offers. I feel it really makes traveling that much better. I wasn't big on road trips, but no I love them!

As far as cars go that have both rear facing seats & autopilot (I'm not sure about your color desire or other options), I am showing 6 Model S available that are listed by Tesla. They might have more that aren't listed though. Check them out here: Tesla Inventory Search They range from 85k-116k.

Another option would be to look at the Model X.

Thanks Erik

 

[GatorGambit]

Have you thought about an X P90DL, or X P90D (I believe 10k cheaper), or X 90D (even "cheaper")?

I have considered it, even test drove one! I can't seem to configure any X in such a way that the options and range make sense price-wise compared to the $114k price of the inventory P90DL I've got a deposit on. An X75 wth 7 seats, leather, premium interior, autopilot, subzero, and ultra high fidelity audio is $102k...seems worth the extra $12k to just get the P90DL.

As far as cars go that have both rear facing seats & autopilot (I'm not sure about your color desire or other options), I am showing 6 Model S available that are listed by Tesla. They might have more that aren't listed though. Check them out here: Tesla Inventory Search They range from 85k-116k.

I was on your site for hours last night! Out of the 6 available the color combinations aren't working for me. Really want something as close to black interior/black exterior or black interior/dark non-red exterior as possible. Not a fan of the Titanium Metallic color, white feels too boring. I'm probably being picky, but I figure when you're spending this kind of money you want to get as close to what you want as possible.

 

[hybridbear]

I would not get a Model S without AP. That's why I ended up ordering a new 60D versus buying a CPO car. I really wanted a used car, but my OA told me that all AP cars that get traded in are put into the Service Loaner fleet & pre-AP cars from the Service Loaner fleet are now being sold as CPO. We looked at inventory cars and there weren't any inventory options that had the right options without costing more than a new 60D.

 

[CarpetMan]

Of course I would (and I did). You need to decide if autopilot is a feature you need or one you can live without.

For me, I drive in the city 98% of the time. The 5 or 6 times I year I do go on road trips I can do without autopilot. Of course I'd like to have it, but I look at the monumental leap I'm making from my last car, and a CPO without autopilot is already light years ahead of what I'm used to.

 

[Az_Rael]

I would (I am shopping non-autopilot CPOs now). I can get a almost fully loaded S85 for less than a base new S60 at the current prices. When I load up a new 60 to where I want it, I end up in the $75k range (which is too much). Where I am seeing several S85s in the mid-50s.

For me, getting autopilot isn't worth the price bump, especially since I can afford the bigger battery car if I skip it.

I'll just enjoy my non-autopilot CPO for a few years, then buy an AP2.0 Model 3 and skip gen 1 AP.

 

[kort677]

would you by an Iphone 5s today?

 

[Owner]

I would and have an S without autopilot. I would not use it all that much as I don't commute.

For me the inflection point yes/no depends upon whether you drive in traffic or not. If I drove in traffic, I'd like the intelligent cruise control feature. Since I don't drive in traffic much, I'm happy without it.

And I think the autopilot hardware will be evolving to the next generation someday.

 

[Boourns]

Maybe consider a new 90D with RFS? It is still faster than your old STI and 30 grand less than the P90DL.

 

[Az_Rael]

would you by an Iphone 5s today?

Ha!, I guess for me the answer to that is yes, I would. It seems like iPhones have reached a saturation point where the new ones aren't all that much better than the old ones. My work iPhone is a 5s and I don't notice any difference between it and my personal 6s performance-wise. (I even kinda enjoy the smaller form factor of the 5s).

Guess this just proves I am a frugal engineer and you can't cure that.

 

[Whistle2Whine]

Yes, since 1) My driving doesn't involve a long highway commute and 2) None of the ICE cars I'm also considering have it anyway. My main CPO stumbling block is actually the Pre-Nov-2014 seats on my preferred CPO option. Thankfully the latest CPO dump has some P85Ds in it with NextGen's. If I can stretch, that'd kill two birds with one stone, since I'd just see autopilot as a nice perk. For you, I'd also look into one of the 85/90D's.

 

[GatorGambit]

For me, I drive in the city 98% of the time. The 5 or 6 times I year I do go on road trips I can do without autopilot. Of course I'd like to have it, but I look at the monumental leap I'm making from my last car, and a CPO without autopilot is already light years ahead of what I'm used to.

Same here, I've never had adaptive cruise control and I don't get on the highway to commute, so I'm thinking I could live without it.

I'll just enjoy my non-autopilot CPO for a few years, then buy an AP2.0 Model 3 and skip gen 1 AP.

This is a good point...

would you by an Iphone 5s today?

No, but I am a software development guy so it's kind of apples and oranges...

Maybe consider a new 90D with RFS? It is still faster than your old STI and 30 grand less than the P90DL.

I have my OA looking at a few options in this arena. We'll see what he comes up with.

My main CPO stumbling block is actually the Pre-Nov-2014 seats on my preferred CPO option. Thankfully the latest CPO dump has some P85Ds in it with NextGen's.

Guess I was unaware of the seating differences...What's the difference in the seats?

 

[hybridbear]

Guess I was unaware of the seating differences...What's the difference in the seats?

Next Gen seats are supposed to be much more comfortable. I sat in a car at the store with the previous standard leather seats & could tell the difference in the seats but not in the comfort level in a short time sitting in them. Both my OA & DS insisted vehemently that the Next Gen seats are light-years better than the older nappa leather seats.

 

[ChadS]

The OA and DS probably don't sit in the seats for long periods of time either - just test drives.

As you can imagine with any seating surface, it is personal. I have had a loaner with next-gens and I could go either way. My wife's main objection to upgrading her car is that she strongly prefers the old seats (and she is picky because of a bad back).

Statistically speaking I am sure the next-gens please more people, but statistics don't matter if YOU are going to be driving the car. Try them both and see what works for you.

The Roadster seats changed during its run and there is the same issue there. Some swear by the new ones, some by the old.

What I think I like best are the cloth seats, but I have not had a chance to try them for an extended period.

 

[Owner]

I drove across country and back with 1st generation seats. I don't understand the complaints personally....

I did have a subaru rental for a few months 10 years ago, now those seats were painful!

 

[kort677]

I drove across country and back with 1st generation seats. I don't understand the complaints personally....

I found the 1st generation seats to be most uncomfortable the updated seats for me a far better on long rides. everyone is shaped differently, you're fortunate that your seats work well for you.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Some background...I have an inventory P90DL that I'm scheduled to pick up in a few days. I'm coming from a BMW X5, which has been great, but I've wanted a Tesla for years, and I wanted another performance car (had an STI before the BMW). Since I've had time to think about it, I've started to get cold feet on it, in part because I use the third row seats in the BMW every once in a while, and in part because the practical side of me is having a bit of sticker shock on the price.

I'm looking at some of the CPO cars available, particularly those with rear facing seats. It seems like the cars with the options and color combinations I like are 2013s, which do not have Autopilot. I don't take many road trips and my commute is short enough (25-30 miles a day round trip) that I don't need to use highways. Would you buy a Model S without Autopilot? Do you think lack of Autopilot will make a CPO Model S depreciate faster?

I would, if my normal driving didn't involve much long distance/freeway driving.
Bear in mind your resale value will be slightly less.

 

[Redmiata98]

Another often missd use of the autopilot is to avoid speed traps. It can be set to maintain 25 mph.

Autopilot is great now and gets better with each upgrade. Back at the end of last year when I traded in my model S there was oit much of a price difference between models with/without the Autopilot. The big factor then was mileage. How much difference is there now between models?