Would you delay your delivery for a more complete car?

[onlinespending]

I would absolutely delay delivery (and am very much considering doing so) for improvements in the Model S. I want to see improvements to the interior, primarily ones that address the lack of concealable storage and functionality, and an upgrade to the anemic 16GB of storage for music (and that's with the upgraded sound package). The possibility of All Wheel Drive and a convertible hard-top are also attractive to me. Any other additional features (such as auto folding side-view mirrors) are just an added bonus. But inevitably there will be electromechanical issues, even if only minor, that can be improved upon in a refresh of the car next year. The other benefit of waiting, is that I don't suffer from the growing pains that others would experience with the car in its first year. This includes unfinished software, electromechanical issues, etc. Even if just the software, at least I'll be enjoying a finished product from the moment I get it versus going through a somewhat frustrating experience.

 

[W8MM]

Your personal history and opinion you mean. While those are very valid for your own purposes, they are not necessarily reflective of the company.
We have continued to receive updates to our Roadster right up through a couple of months ago.
We have never not had an issue addressed promptly and professionally.
This includes both issues we raised, and those Tesla simply updated for better performance or driving experience.

So I will, based on my history and experience, continue to have faith that the same will continue if at all possible.

I take it your Roadster is not a 1.5 or you happen to live in a place that doesn't get much winter driving action or hot, humid summers? For you, I'm sure it's perfect.

How does my experience with Tesla not reflect on Tesla, the company? I am really curious.

 

[CyberDutchie]

The possibility of All Wheel Drive and a convertible hard-top are also attractive to me.

Now you're no longer talking about Model S, that's likely going to be a whole different car model, and probably a delay of a full year, if not longer.

 

[mitch672]

I don't have a choice, as I reserved the Model S today. Estimated delivery: Spring of 2013
I do think waiting 6-12 months will allow them the time to solve initial problems that come up, and I won't have to be a "Beta tester".

Mitch
Sequence # 10,010

 

[W8MM]

Now you're no longer talking about Model S, that's likely going to be a whole different car model, and probable a delay of a full year, if not longer.

Now, now, all wheel drive was being discussed intermittently by Tesla sales folks 2 or 3 years ago. They still won't declaratively say if or not for the Model S. This is a big issue for me as whether to defer or not.

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't have a choice, as I reserved the Model S today. Estimated delivery: Spring of 2013
I do think waiting 6-12 months will allow them the time to solve initial problems that come up, and I won't have to be a "Beta tester".

Mitch
Sequence # 10,010

Congrats, I think you're the first to report with a number above 10,000! Don't forget to add it here: Model S Reservation and Delivery Tally

 

[onlinespending]

Now, now, all wheel drive was being discussed intermittently by Tesla sales folks 2 or 3 years ago. They still won't declaratively say if or not for the Model S. This is a big issue for me as whether to defer or not.

Right. They could very well have been already working on an AWD solution. It's no different than say Apple working on the iPhone 5 before the iPhone 4S was even released. Companies have to stagger the work done on product revisions and upgrades.

 

[markwj]

I too don't have a choice. Holding P-1, but living in Hong Kong, I'm forced to wait for mid-to-late 2013. Better be before April 2014 when tax breaks are up for renewal.

That said, perhaps it is a good thing. Good to let Tesla work out the kinks in the v1.0 (or is it a v0.9) product before I get the v1.1 / v2.0.

 

[brianman]

The other benefit of waiting, is that I don't suffer from the growing pains that others would experience with the car in its first year. This includes unfinished software, electromechanical issues, etc. Even if just the software, at least I'll be enjoying a finished product from the moment I get it versus going through a somewhat frustrating experience.

IMO, you're using the term finished loosely. My interpretation of the way you're using it suggests that you will never get one. Just speaking to software for example, there is no such thing as finished... only unmaintained.

Edit: Unless you mean after an EMP, I suppose; definitely finished at that point.

 

[onlinespending]

IMO, you're using the term finished loosely. My interpretation of the way you're using it suggests that you will never get one. Just speaking to software for example, there is no such thing as finished... only unmaintained.

Edit: Unless you mean after an EMP, I suppose; definitely finished at that point.

I mean, there are plenty of features which they intend to complete over time that won't make the initial launch. Will it continue to evolve even a year later? Most likely. But the changes will be more minor tweaks and bug fixes. But you obviously asymptotically approach 100%, and if the software is 75% done at launch (just as an example), then perhaps after a year it'll be at 98-99% complete.

 

[smoothoperator]

Please give examples. Minor stuff, yeah. Major? See my post above.

How about the ventilation control knobs that break so easily that I had to source another style? Oh, their fix changed the center console that can't be retrofitted to a 1.5.

Same model type 1.5 2.0 2.5.....An early 1.5 will receive the same updates as a late 1.5 (same with 2.0 & 2.5's)......For the 2.5's some of the updates that Tesla has done is an HD radio booster update, Lumbar supports, PEM fans, shroud, and some other ones I cannot remember but were on my invoice. I am sure there have been at least 15 non essential updates that Tesla has performed on eariler roadsters to make them the same spec as laster roadsters.

 

[SCW-Greg]

Being an early adopter has its risks, this is just how the market works in my eyes. For example, I bought a 2008 Subaru WRX. It's a nice car but not great and the reviews backed up my assessment of the car. The following year (2009) Subaru added more power (~40hp) a quieter and more refined interior (for a compact sedan anyway) and fixed a couple of other issues. What happened was that I bought the first model year of a redesign and it wasn't perfect but it is definitely good enough. It really just comes down to your mindset. I would say if you are having second thoughts that you should delay delivery and see what happens. The questions in your head will always come back anytime that there is the slightest thing wrong with the car.

Car manufacturers have to do something to set each model year apart to continue to get people in the showrooms or on the website in Tesla's case to buy cars. So I anticipate a better navigation system in future Model S' and other gadgets that weren't available to me at the time of purchase. The only thing you can fall back on is "I bought the car that fits my needs".

Spot on. Plus you read enough of these posts and then all the nit-picks start to show up, and you begin to forget how this car is disrupting the entire industry... and all the other things that make it mind blowing in the first place. Driving this car home, regardless what version or battery pack, and the entire neighborhood will take notice!

Everyone is on a different point in the adoption line, to each their own level of production refinement satisfaction.

 

[Jason S]

W8MM brings up good points & history -- there may simply be some things that cannot be upgraded via a Tesla Ranger. onlinespending's examples of All Wheel Drive and convertible hard-top are extreme versions, but simpler things such as Roadster 1.5's weak heating/cooling and brakes are good examples.

So that's the danger of early adoption.

I'm in a pretty comfortable spot -- California. Not right next to the factory, but close enough and the majority of the car's testing is in area similar to my own. So I've got less risk for environmental issues than W8MM or somebody in the NE US.

For the items I feel are lacking in the current vehicle most can be upgraded fairly easily. I'm being reasonable about expectations and not looking towards Tesla needing to 'fix' a lack of AWD or change the roof line. The current version of the car is nice enough that I'd rather have it now than wait 6 more months for refinements. I believe my enjoyment and my wife's enjoyment of the car over the next 6 months will outweigh any extra enjoyment from a few more luxury features, even if some of those luxury features do end up passing us by because we took a V1.0 rather than 1.5 or 2.0.

 

[CyberDutchie]

W8MM brings up good points & history -- there may simply be some things that cannot be upgraded via a Tesla Ranger. onlinespending's examples of All Wheel Drive and convertible hard-top are extreme versions, but simpler things such as Roadster 1.5's weak heating/cooling and brakes are good examples.

I've never heard Tesla talk about a convertible version of the Model S. You think it's in the plans?

It would have to be a complete new design--structurally, the added electro mechanical system to open/close, probably two doors versus four, etc. Doesn't sound like an upgrade to current Model S, but it would be a great addition to the Tesla model lineup IMO.

 

[W8MM]

Same model type 1.5 2.0 2.5.....An early 1.5 will receive the same updates as a late 1.5 (same with 2.0 & 2.5's)......For the 2.5's some of the updates that Tesla has done is an HD radio booster update, Lumbar supports, PEM fans, shroud, and some other ones I cannot remember but were on my invoice. I am sure there have been at least 15 non essential updates that Tesla has performed on eariler roadsters to make them the same spec as laster roadsters.

Let's separate the apples from the oranges.

1) Tesla has been very good about proactively upgrading firmware and and doing things like re-locating the satellite radio and GPS antenna locations so that they work much better. Kudos to Tesla for their fine work. The Rangers did a lot of work each time they were on site because they came from 5-hours away -- not just down the coast.

2) If there are features that would make the car "nicer" like different seats or more advanced electronics package offerings, no big deal. I realize that different model years get different offerings and that progress marches on. I am a certified early adopter.

3) What I am talking about are things that were not revealed at the time of purchase and could only be taken on faith that they would be satisfactory -- look at my TMC registration date. Had any Tesla product even been test-driven by potential customers then? We were only able to drive Elon's personal car with the then two-speed transmission locked in 2nd gear around Palo Alto (not Ohio) in mid-2008. Unsatisfactorily odd ABS behavior on low-coefficient winter roads and a "pretend" AC system that only works when it is least needed are really frustrating and were not featured on the sales literature or able to be experienced in a California test drive. Since there is apparently never going to be a resolution of these more major issues, they are worth noting.

What's so hard to "get" about the differences among 1, 2, or 3?

Again, #1 = Good work by Tesla, #2 = no big deal, that's life, #3 = so frustrating that I wish I had waited for the resolution in subsequent versions of the Roadster. That is the topic of this thread, isn't it? Does "more complete" in the thread title mean with more goodies or does it mean with properly functioning basics?

Oh, speaking of not mentioned until after delivery, will the Model S be restricted to hand washing? After we took delivery of our Roadster 1.5, we were cautioned not to take it through an automated car wash. There were no problems with leaks, they said, but there could be problems with the electrics. We adjusted to the news, but it would have been nicer to have exceptions to every-day vehicle usage revealed ahead of time. Hand washing a car in Ohio winters is not that practical unless done indoors.

Hopefully Tesla learned from the Roadster what could be improved in their product planning and execution. I expect the Model S to be a better car.

However, I don't expect Tesla to do much beyond firmware updates or a few very simple bolt-ons for early adopters of the Model S.

 

[smoothoperator]

Let's separate the apples from the oranges.

1) Tesla has been very good about proactively upgrading firmware and and doing things like re-locating the satellite radio and GPS antenna locations so that they work much better. Kudos to Tesla for their fine work. The Rangers did a lot of work each time they were on site because they came from 5-hours away -- not just down the coast.

2) If there are features that would make the car "nicer" like different seats or more advanced electronics package offerings, no big deal. I realize that different model years get different offerings and that progress marches on. I am a certified early adopter.

3) What I am talking about are things that were not revealed at the time of purchase and could only be taken on faith that they would be satisfactory -- look at my TMC registration date. Had any Tesla product even been test-driven by potential customers then? We were only able to drive Elon's personal car with the then two-speed transmission locked in 2nd gear around Palo Alto (not Ohio) in mid-2008. Unsatisfactorily odd ABS behavior on low-coefficient winter roads and a "pretend" AC system that only works when it is least needed are really frustrating and were not featured on the sales literature or able to be experienced in a California test drive. Since there is apparently never going to be a resolution of these more major issues, they are worth noting.

What's so hard to "get" about the differences among 1, 2, or 3?

Again, #1 = Good work by Tesla, #2 = no big deal, that's life, #3 = so frustrating that I wish I had waited for the resolution in subsequent versions of the Roadster. That is the topic of this thread, isn't it? Does "more complete" in the thread title mean with more goodies or does it mean with properly functioning basics?

Oh, speaking of not mentioned until after delivery, will the Model S be restricted to hand washing? After we took delivery of our Roadster 1.5, we were cautioned not to take it through an automated car wash. There were no problems with leaks, they said, but there could be problems with the electrics. We adjusted to the news, but it would have been nicer to have exceptions to every-day vehicle usage revealed ahead of time. Hand washing a car in Ohio winters is not that practical unless done indoors.

Hopefully Tesla learned from the Roadster what could be improved in their product planning and execution. I expect the Model S to be a better car.

However, I don't expect Tesla to do much beyond firmware updates or a few very simple bolt-ons for early adopters of the Model S.

I do not think the Roadster and the Model S are comparable products, sure Tesla took some engineering shortcuts (had to work within the framework of lotus) with the Roadster and ended up with a vehicle that early on had some significant issues (hence the extended warranty for early adopters). The Model S is much more modular and it is unlikely that in iteration 2.0 etc we will see huge redesigns of the dash etc. The feature that the OP commented on earlier can all be retrofitted.

 

[nrcooled]

While I understand your requirement I don't know if it remains true for "average Tesla owners". Tesla is embarking on a new technology/car which will see competitino from a lot of different manufacturers. BMW, Merc, Audi, etc. are all developing and refining their EV vehicles as we speak. This will make for longer battery ranges, better reliability, etc. and if the EV market takes off (as we all hope it does as early adopters) it will spur on other manufacturers to expand and improve their EV lineup.

I agree that I would love for Tesla to come out with a longer range battery pack that I can future proof my car with by upgrading to a larger kwh down the road but I don't feel that it is there obligation to do so. Their obligation is to sell cars and maintain my car...that is really all I am hoping for. Everything else above and beyond is just gravy.

 

[Francis Lau]

Let's separate the apples from the oranges.

1) Tesla has been very good about proactively upgrading firmware and and doing things like re-locating the satellite radio and GPS antenna locations so that they work much better. Kudos to Tesla for their fine work. The Rangers did a lot of work each time they were on site because they came from 5-hours away -- not just down the coast.

2) If there are features that would make the car "nicer" like different seats or more advanced electronics package offerings, no big deal. I realize that different model years get different offerings and that progress marches on. I am a certified early adopter.

3) What I am talking about are things that were not revealed at the time of purchase and could only be taken on faith that they would be satisfactory -- look at my TMC registration date. Had any Tesla product even been test-driven by potential customers then? We were only able to drive Elon's personal car with the then two-speed transmission locked in 2nd gear around Palo Alto (not Ohio) in mid-2008. Unsatisfactorily odd ABS behavior on low-coefficient winter roads and a "pretend" AC system that only works when it is least needed are really frustrating and were not featured on the sales literature or able to be experienced in a California test drive. Since there is apparently never going to be a resolution of these more major issues, they are worth noting.

What's so hard to "get" about the differences among 1, 2, or 3?

Again, #1 = Good work by Tesla, #2 = no big deal, that's life, #3 = so frustrating that I wish I had waited for the resolution in subsequent versions of the Roadster. That is the topic of this thread, isn't it? Does "more complete" in the thread title mean with more goodies or does it mean with properly functioning basics?

Oh, speaking of not mentioned until after delivery, will the Model S be restricted to hand washing? After we took delivery of our Roadster 1.5, we were cautioned not to take it through an automated car wash. There were no problems with leaks, they said, but there could be problems with the electrics. We adjusted to the news, but it would have been nicer to have exceptions to every-day vehicle usage revealed ahead of time. Hand washing a car in Ohio winters is not that practical unless done indoors.

Hopefully Tesla learned from the Roadster what could be improved in their product planning and execution. I expect the Model S to be a better car.

However, I don't expect Tesla to do much beyond firmware updates or a few very simple bolt-ons for early adopters of the Model S.

Thanks for providing another perspective with good examples of trade offs. I certainly appreciate it. I do not plan to delay but I am going in with my eyes wide open, not expecting any post-delivery upgrades except for software.

 

[rogbmw]

With regard to waiting for the next generation/updates etc, this is true of everything in life....well maybe not the wife, but just about everything else! My reservation number is in the 7K range, so I am where I am. But, I do realize that maybe a later production number may - and probably will - have updates. Just like ICE cars, the next model year always will have something different on them - it is just the nature of the business. I don't think we will be as bad as computers - where things change weekly or daily, but they do change. I am going into the purchase of the S with the intentions of having it for quite some time - planning on 10 years anyway. I'm planning in the 85Kw battery pack, and it will be the most expensive automobile I will have ever purchased. In planning this way, I realize that it may not be the newest or latest version....but....I will smile everytime I pass the gas station!

 

[efusco]

With regard to waiting for the next generation/updates etc, this is true of everything in life....well maybe not the wife, but just about everything else! My reservation number is in the 7K range, so I am where I am. But, I do realize that maybe a later production number may - and probably will - have updates. Just like ICE cars, the next model year always will have something different on them - it is just the nature of the business. I don't think we will be as bad as computers - where things change weekly or daily, but they do change. I am going into the purchase of the S with the intentions of having it for quite some time - planning on 10 years anyway. I'm planning in the 85Kw battery pack, and it will be the most expensive automobile I will have ever purchased. In planning this way, I realize that it may not be the newest or latest version....but....I will smile everytime I pass the gas station!

Completely agree (even the wife part!). I think each of us must have our own threshold for what we'll accept and what we demand to wait for. IMO, the car, as is, is a step up from anything I've ever owned and by far the most complete EV ever sold. That's enough for me. will there be improvements that I'll be jealous of in the next couple years? Undoubtedly, but I'm not willing to wait and am happy to be the early adopter.