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Would you like to see fsd as a subscription option?

jkoya

NA2 NSX
Nov 21, 2018
3,626
1,555
Northern CA
And they (siriusXM) have a whole infrastructure in place to hassle / beg / email / physical mail people to get them to re subscribe, not counting the technical requirements.

So true indeed ..... cancelled Sirius last year and they still call and send letters to resubscribe, despite me telling them not to contact me anymore.
 
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Octo

Member
Jun 28, 2019
386
402
Dallas
I don't understand where this subscription idea comes from. It is incredibly unlikely to ever happen. For one, it would require Tesla to manage the subscriptions of hundreds of thousands of owners meaning that Tesla would have to keep track and send software updates to different owners to enable or disable certain features depending on whether that owner has started a FSD subscription or canceled it. And considering that Tesla believes that FSD will make Teslas much safer than manual driving, I think it is highly unlikely that Tesla will agree to a system where different owners can start or cancel FSD every month or every year.

I also don’t think it will happen but for other reasons.

Managing subscriptions is negligible (it’s a problem that’s been solved many times and could be outsourced for a fee so it is more of a business problem and less of a logistical ptoblem).

And if Tesla were so concerned about safety, they’d simply enable FSD (software switch) for all their cars.

Subscriptions won’t happen because feasible FSD in the foreseeable future is a novelty that can’t sustain a monthly fee (fanbois excluded but those don’t count, money wise) on the level required to match a $6000 purchase.

They also don’t work well with Elon’s FOMO style.

And true FSD cannot really be priced because nobody knows how much the masses would pay for this. There simply isn’t a service with operating costs like that out there.

Taxis/Uber don’t count because their operating costs are intrinsically higher than FSD and hence this limits their adoption rate (I rather own a car than rely on Uber due to cost and availability - this may be different if there was a readily available robotaxi).

I wouldn’t pay $200/month for true FSD in my own Tesla and I certainly wouldn’t let my car be abused in a fleet.

I might pay $500/month for a Tesla robotaxi service subscription as the consumer (but not more - I’d lease a nice vehicle if it were more).

Some think true FSD is the best thing since sliced bread and would happily sink $1000 or more per month into an Echauffeur.

Who knows.
 
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diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
7,179
8,195
Terre Haute, IN USA
SiriusXM has been doing that for 20 years...

SiriusXM is just a bunch of radio stations. It does not affect your driving in any way if you decide to cancel it. On the other hand, FSD is a set of important driving features that directly impacts how the car drives and potentially impacts the safety of the driver and passengers. Would you make lane departure avoidance or lane keeping subscription based? Of course not!
 
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Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
6,060
Chicagoland
Yes but that does not address my second concern. If FSD increases driver safety, having a subscription model where every month or every year the cars with FSD can switch back and forth, is not good.

Personally...I believe that all elements of TESLA should be subscription based.

If you want EAP - you should be able to order it and have the update offered to your car. If you want FSD....order it for 30 days when you go on vacation and turn it off when you don't want/need it anymore.

Drivers safety is another discussion so I'll leave that alone.

I don't know exactly how Tesla does it yet, but I believe we ALL get ALL of the software in each update....and that there are feature bits that turn certain features on or off based on if you purchased it or not.
 

Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
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Chicagoland
In a similar vein, I would like to see them offer a lifetime FSD license that can be transferred to another Tesla. People would upgrade cars more often if doing so meant that their FSD license transferred to the new car.

I love this idea.

$1000 for FSD that stays with the car

$2000 if you want it to stay with you forever.

Sure - change the prices I listed all you want....so lets not argue about them....you get the gist.
 

Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
6,060
Chicagoland
SiriusXM is just a bunch of radio stations. It does not affect your driving in any way if you decide to cancel it. On the other hand, FSD is a set of important driving features that directly impacts how the car drives and potentially impacts the safety of the driver and passengers. Would you make lane departure avoidance or lane keeping subscription based? Of course not!

I believe things like "lane departure warnings" have become standard on most all cars...so I don't consider it a feature.

It has become like anti-lock brakes. You can no longer order a car without anti-lock brakes.

Features should be Features and standards should be standards.

All car manufactures should and have been removing standards from features. For example "anti-lock" brakes shouldn't be listed as a feature on a Tesla because you will "always" get it no matter which car you buy.

Parts of FSD will probably drop off over time and become standard.

What part of FSD do you think has to do with safety?

I just checked 3 minutes ago....this is what Tesla's website says comes with FSD.

_____________________________________________

Full Self-Driving Capability
  • Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
  • Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
  • Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
  • Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
 
Last edited:

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
7,179
8,195
Terre Haute, IN USA
If you want EAP - you should be able to order it and have the update offered to your car. If you want FSD....order it for 30 days when you go on vacation and turn it off when you don't want/need it anymore.

Parts of FSD will probably drop off over time and become standard.

What part of FSD do you believe should become a standard safety feature?

I think Tesla's goal is for ALL of FSD to eventually become standard. That's the best explanation for why Tesla will never go to a subscription based model. Tesla views FSD as a future standard safety feature. So they are not going to make it optional. Hence, no subscription.
 
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Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
6,060
Chicagoland
I think Tesla's goal is for ALL of FSD to eventually become standard. That's the best explanation for why Tesla will never go to a subscription based model. Tesla views FSD as a future standard safety feature. So they are not going to make it optional. Hence, no subscription.

I hear ya.... and I agree.....

I was just wondering what part of FSD you consider to be safety.

These are the only things Tesla lists as features of FSD. IMO they are all toys right now.

Full Self-Driving Capability
  • Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
  • Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
  • Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
  • Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really

I fully agree with Tesla that the concept of FSD is a "future" safety feature - when just about all cars can drive themselves.
I believe its excellent that "TESLA" is leading the way.
 

JBT66

Member
Oct 26, 2018
620
362
Arizona
This sounds like getting updated map for Navigation for a few hundred no thanks...

Also if the base cost is $6K that’s going to be a hefty sub...

Probably so much so that’s I’d say nah...

It would be a good option for those opting for a lease.
 

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
7,179
8,195
Terre Haute, IN USA
I was just wondering what part of FSD you consider to be safety.

Well, I do consider Autopilot in general to be a safety system now since it definitely makes driving safer for me personally. And I do find that NOA makes my highway driving safer and more convenient. I do believe that FSD will be a safety system in the future when it is finished.
 

Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
6,060
Chicagoland
Well, I do consider Autopilot in general to be a safety system now since it definitely makes driving safer for me personally. And I do find that NOA makes my highway driving safer. I do believe that FSD will be a safety system in the future when it is finished.

Autoipilot - yes.

NOA...good but not in all situations. Has trouble with construction and potholes.
 

Kognos

Member
May 20, 2019
230
242
Portland, OR
Just give me a worthwhile AP that doesn't disable when I change lanes. I'd pay Tesla $500 for it. They can keep NOA and Summon.

"Autopilot" as it stands right now is auto-accelerate, auto-brake, and lanekeeping assist.
It doesn't disable auto-accelerate or auto-brake when you change lanes, but you're choosing to disable the lanekeeping when you change lanes. Kind of a no-brainer there. When you enable your turn signal the lanekeeping/steering turns off.
 
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diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
7,179
8,195
Terre Haute, IN USA
Autoipilot - yes.

NOA...good but not in all situations. Has trouble with construction and potholes.

NOA certainly has its limitations. No doubt. But I still like it for those long road trips. I used to get drowsy on long highway trips in my old L1 car to the point where I would not drive on the highway again. I don't get drowsy anymore in my Tesla. The lane keeping helps a lot. And the auto lane change really helps improve safety because it handles blind spots better than I do.
 

afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
692
624
NYC
I don't understand where this subscription idea comes from. It is incredibly unlikely to ever happen.

Subscription payment model is the preferred payment structure in software business. Has been for the past 5+ years (Pandora, Microsoft, Adobe, anti-virus companies, SXM, etc). You can add car leasing to this pricing model as well.

A company trades off higher one-time upfront payment for a longer-term recurring revenue that, typically, adds up to a higher total amount over time. Higher total revenue, plus better alignment of recurring cost of supporting and maintaining the software development efforts with the revenue, is why more and more companies are trying to entice customers into subscription payment models.

It's only a matter of time before Tesla figures this out.

And considering that Tesla believes that FSD will make Teslas much safer than manual driving, I think it is highly unlikely that Tesla will agree to a system where different owners can start or cancel FSD every month or every year.

Tesla is not here to evangelize safety by giving away FSD (if and when it works). Otherwise, it would have done so already.
As long as FSD is an add-on $$$$ option, how, and how much, customers pay for it, will remain an evolving target.

Tesla is trying to make as much money off their products as they can, continuously re-arranging the contents of AP/EAP/FSD packages, and attempting to jack up FSD prices to the max that the market will bear.
If Tesla gets to the point where they can collect even more money from their customers via FSD subscription, they will certainly try.

The downside to subscription model is if that the customer has to see and appreciate the product's value to keep paying.
As long as FSD remains vaporware, subscription model won't support recurring revenue - people will cancel in mass.
Subscription structure will have to wait until FSD becomes something real and desirable, that people will be willing to pay for monthly. That may take years.
Until then, it's 100% massive FOMO and stick them up upfront pricing for FSD.

a
 
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Darthbenji

Active Member
Mar 27, 2018
1,003
594
Ontario
In a similar vein, I would like to see them offer a lifetime FSD license that can be transferred to another Tesla. People would upgrade cars more often if doing so meant that their FSD license transferred to the new car.
I mentioned this idea is some thread ages ago. I didn’t buy EAP because I chance my cars too often. $6-8k every three years or so wasn’t worth it to me. Had their been a license that followed me instead of the car I’d have signed up.
 

spatterso911

P100DL - Raven
Mar 3, 2012
1,223
12
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
The downside to subscription model is if that the customer has to see and appreciate the product's value to keep paying.
As long as FSD remains vaporware, subscription model won't support recurring revenue - people will cancel in mass.
Subscription structure will have to wait until FSD becomes something real and desirable, that people will be willing to pay for monthly. That may take years.
Until then, it's 100% massive FOMO and stick them up upfront pricing for FSD.

a

And that, ladies and gentlemen is the reason why it should not occur. Lets face it... The structure assumes that every vehicle on the road currently has a HW3.0 computer. It also assumes that you have 8+ cameras to make it function properly. Only the last couple years of the S and X can every fully meet that criteria. While the 3 has the hardware, all 3 models (+ future) still have to contend with vaporware at the moment, so the revenue stream dies immediately, vs collecting the dues up-front at purchase with the promise of the software coming into reality in the future. This is a discussion to be had in a couple years when FSD is more likely to be a reality and a functional one at that!

Also, keep in mind that once FSD is up and running, the data streams will be essential to software improvement. The more people who jump on the bandwagon now, the more data will flow which will invariably improve the experience.

As a stockholder, the subscription idea is not currently a viable option.
 
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Garlan Garner

Banned
Mar 31, 2016
11,351
6,060
Chicagoland
Having a subscription based enhancement option would do nothing to either one of us as an individual.

If Tesla wanted to adopt a subscription based system....then they should NOT do away with the purchase based system that is in progress now.
Both can exist together.
 

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