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would you pay £1000 more for a MiC 2021 SR+ vs a likely US model?

GeorgeSymonds

Member
Mar 16, 2018
919
523
UK
It’s a bummer that if they activate the headlights as a paid for sub leasers won’t be able to get it :-(
I really wouldn't worry. Tesla haven't mastered auto full beam so the chances of them having fancy matrix headlights doing anything is some way off and they'll also probably announce it 2 years before they release it as a beta.

Tesla do a lot of wonderful things but based on several years of experience by far the best way to think about them is in terms of what the cars do now and not what they promise, its the best way for your sanity and to avoid being constantly frustrated,
 
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Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,799
1,821
Bath, UK
I really wouldn't worry. Tesla haven't mastered auto full beam so the chances of them having fancy matrix headlights doing anything is some way off and they'll also probably announce it 2 years before they release it as a beta.

Tesla do a lot of wonderful things but based on several years of experience by far the best way to think about them is in terms of what the cars do now and not what they promise, its the best way for your sanity and to avoid being constantly frustrated,
This is a sobering read if you want to get a handle on promises vs reality:


I bought FSD for my car because I wanted it to do everything is could do, but realistically anything beyond level 2 automation is probably beyond the lifespan of my car, and it will probably need several iterations of hardware (despite what Elon says to the contrary) - i.e. HW5 or beyond, to get even up to level 4. I don't anticipate this hardware being provided for free to anyone, even FSD buyers.

People buying a Tesla, and especially those leasing, should think about the here and now in terms of features actually delivered. Anything else that may or may come down the pipe ought to be considered a bonus.
 
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VanillaAir_UK

Supporting Member
Jun 17, 2019
7,141
4,663
Surrey, UK
I bought FSD for my car because I wanted it to do everything is could do, but realistically anything beyond level 2 automation is probably beyond the lifespan of my car, and it will probably need several iterations of hardware (despite what Elon says to the contrary) - i.e. HW5 or beyond, to get even up to level 4. I don't anticipate this hardware being provided for free to anyone, even FSD buyers.

I still believe that 'Level 4' on highways in most weather conditions with current hardware (on vehicles with interior camera) would be achievable relatively quickly if regulatory approval permitted and Tesla focused their attention on it. But Tesla seem to be concentrating on City Streets and as yet, little evidence of any useful benefits filtering back to 'highways'. I also suspect that regulatory approval would at first severely limit the operational domain (low speed) and reliability concerns restrict any implementation to 'Level 3'.

edit - 'highways' here refers to the official Tesla supported domain of freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps with no pedestrians or cyclists, ie motorways and some major dual carriageways. tbh, this is probably the most useful use case for many.
 
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SpareHeadOne

Member
Oct 27, 2020
222
133
UK
I still believe that 'Level 4' on highways in most weather conditions with current hardware (on vehicles with interior camera) would be achievable relatively quickly if regulatory approval permitted and Tesla focused their attention on it. But Tesla seem to be concentrating on City Streets and as yet, little evidence of any useful benefits filtering back to 'highways'. I also suspect that regulatory approval would at first severely limit the operational domain (low speed) and reliability concerns restrict any implementation to 'Level 3'.

My initial thoughts were that highways should be easier because they're a more controlled environment where you're very unlikely to encounter hazards behaving randomly like cyclists and pedestrians.

Now I think about it, the speeds are so high that you can't rely on reacting to things that happen within 30 feet of the car, you have to be monitoring further ahead and behind at least and I'm not entirely sure that Tesla's current hardware can to that - let alone the software. In theory highway driving is easier to achieve and arguably more useful, but I think most driving situations have their own complications that probably even things out more that you would expect.

What I do find weird is that they don't seem to make any use of navigation data to help out the driving systems - so the car will happily fling itself into a tight bend that you really need to slow down for and then overreact because it can't turn the corner fast enough and slow to a crawl, whereas what it should be able to do is "look" at the map and drop 10-15mph as it arrives at the bend to get round comfortably and safely.

Then again, there are a hundred other things we would probably prefer them to fix first.
 
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GeorgeSymonds

Member
Mar 16, 2018
919
523
UK
I'm another one for get it working on motorways. The distance thing at 70 mph shouldn't be an issue. The car already does TACC following the car in front and should be able to stop no matter what the car in front does speed wise so long as it stays in lane. The complications if the car in front veers out of lane because of stationary traffic it hadn't clocked leaving you with nowhere to go would catch out many drivers regardless. All the traffic is heading in the same direction so the closing speed will be no greater than 70 mph assuming you're approaching stationary traffic, in a 30 limit the closing speed is 60mph if a car is coming towards you, and often greater, so I don't think the speed is any greater an issue. Motorway driving rules are much simpler too and in theory you could just get on in lane one and stay there until you get off just following the lane and keeping a distance from the car in front, the navigation aspect is pretty trivial.

Motorways are also statistically much safer per mile travelled, and maybe that's the issue, Tesla is looking for a safety argument to allow FSD (the twice as safe a human they sometimes quote) but its probably quite hard to achieve that on motorways given how safe they are already and it's been argued that Teslas FSD is worse than not using it at the motorways when you take the road type into consideration. But... its still got to be easier than town driving with a million edge cases and trying to achieve navigation.

We're off topic now by a long way, We're not going to have the choice of MIC or Fremont cars unless you buy used so the original question is moot.
 

Rustybkts

Member
Feb 8, 2020
507
293
Leicestershire
If you want to know what I'd do; I was seriously looking at the SR+ for the past couple of months before we went for the LR, and I was looking specifically at the Fremont cars on the inventory, solely based on the more tried and tested battery technology. The LFP may be fine, but I intend to do regular long trips and didn't want to find Supercharging speeds were hobbled.
LFP or more accurately LiFePo4 cells have been around for a long time now and are very tried and tested. My home build cars have always used this type of cell simply because it is far more forgiving regarding maltreatment. I have been using them since 2008.
They do have a lower capacity than the cells Tesla have used in the past but I understand they have a longer life so would certainly not consider a car with LFP cells as "inferior".
Even the lower reported supercharger rates using LFP are probably marginal as the peak rates with the other cells are only seen for short periods with empty batteries anyway.
 
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Rustybkts

Member
Feb 8, 2020
507
293
Leicestershire
You can see a recent Supercharging the LFP battery video here on a new channel - Joe has posted a few since picking up his MiC SR+. This time charging from 3% in a pre-conditioned battery. Still didn't see over 100kW.
If the owner "Joe" selected the supercharger as a destination and drove a long enough distance, the battery would have been heated to a temp far higher than just conditioning it for increased regen. The battery on my SR+ is an NCA type and I have seen reported that the temperature is raised to around 45 - 50C before supercharging. I have seen 137kW for a short time with a low battery. Maybe the LFP cells are pre-heated much higher when a supercharger is the destination.
 

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