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Would you pay more for a used radar M3 versus new vision one?

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To answer the thread question, no I wouldnt, because my expectation is that at some point all teslas will be using "the same" software / equipment in this regard. I have no idea when that would be, but I certainly would not pay extra for a used car because it has radar, when my expectation is that will be disabled at some point.

Its different than (for example) the Gen 2 wall connector vs Gen 3. I just bought a 2nd gen 2 wall connector to go with the one I have, and paid more for it than it used to cost from tesla new. It was new in box, so not "used", but was worth more to me because the gen 2 wall connector is made better and supports wired powersharing, not wireless.

Anyyway, I dont think we will be in a situation where used model 3s are worth more than new because of radar.
 
I wouldn't, simply because all future improvements will be most likely on vision only. Tesla engineers won't spend more time trying to improve vehicles with old systems. If FSD is going to work, it'll likely work without Radar.

The only way anyone should consider old car is if proven that Radar works better than Vision AND Vision stops improving.
 
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There is no functional difference to the user.


Well, there is currently.

Radar cars can do 90 on AP, and follow distance can be set to 1.

Vision only cars (or radar cars that are no longer using radar, which is all those on FSDBeta) are limited to 80 mph max on AP, and follow distance of 2 minimum.

There's been debate about the degree of phantom braking between the two as well, but that's highly subjective.... the other two things are actual functional limitations on vision compared to radar right now.

(allegedly they'll be updated to parity some day, but it's been a while now since they promised that)


All that said, previous posters have this right- all future improvements will be to the vision system.
 
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Objectively on my commute no phantom braking with radar autopilot. With fsd beta multiple phantom braking, in different areas on a daily basis. Scary


Are you talking city or highway though?

Legacy AP isn't intended for local roads anyway- I find the beta does have pretty regular slowdowns on such roads for hills or oncoming traffic if any angle is involved... but they're like a few mph and quickly resolve, nothing especially scary.... (this is noticably better than earlier beta versions where it was more like a 5-10 mph slowdown instead of more like 1-3)

On highways it's still using legacy (albeit vision) code- so apart from the lower max speed and follow distance I haven't noticed any difference at all... but I've never had the "OMG IT SLAMS ON THE BRAKES FOR OVERPASSES" issues some folks have either, which seems very variable from one owner to the next.
 
There's been debate about the degree of phantom braking between the two as well, but that's highly subjective.... the other two things are actual functional limitations on vision compared to radar right now.

There is definitely ZERO debate among actual owners of both cars. My Plaid had a total of 2 phantom brakes in 5 months and 5k miles. My 2022 YP AND 3P get phantom brakes a half dozen times a DAY! No debate. The vision system is horrible and Elon should be ashamed of himself for releasing it this buggy. We are paying HIM to beta test this crap. It's unsafe!
 
In late November 2021 I bought a used early 2021 M3 (Jan version that still had radar but no heated steering and no matrix headlights) instead of waiting just a few months for the 2022 M3. One of the main reasons I bought the used car was because it had radar still. I heard SO much about phantom breaking on vision-only autopilot. I wanted Autopilot TODAY and working perfectly. I’m glad I bought it.

The issue is that WHO KNOWS when vision will be on parity with vision+radar. It could be 6 months, it could be 3 years. Who knows.

Autopilot is a major selling point in a Tesla for me, so I’m glad I got basically the last Model 3 off the line with radar.

I will say, the price difference between new and used was basically $0, but I got the car immediately instead of waiting three months, and the mileage was really low obviously. I would never have bought anything less than a 2021 model though, and used prices are probably even worse now.
 
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There is definitely ZERO debate among actual owners of both cars. My Plaid had a total of 2 phantom brakes in 5 months and 5k miles. My 2022 YP AND 3P get phantom brakes a half dozen times a DAY! No debate. The vision system is horrible and Elon should be ashamed of himself for releasing it this buggy. We are paying HIM to beta test this crap. It's unsafe!

if it was unsafe there's be verified accidents attributable to it. Nissans problems with unrequested braking for example racked up 14 NHTSA verified accidents in a year or so on a fleet of roughly comparable size to the vision-only Tesla fleet which AFAIK has racked up....0 such verified accidents in about 9 months.


Folks have been claiming PB is "unsafe" for 5+ years now, nobody seems to ever actually have an accident though.... (AFAIK the only report from anybody in that whole time, unverified, was some dude on reddit making a 3rd party report of a single accident, and it was pre-vision)

As to owners of both cars- I've "owned" both in that being in the beta turns off your radar.

On the highway (where the public stack is used) I've noticed no difference other than the lower limits on max speed and follow distance and my drive to work/back is ~75 miles almost all highway.

I very very rarely got any PB before (like once every 5-10k miles maybe?), and I very very rarely get any now- and in neither case was it "dangerous" (usually a slowdown from like 75 to 65 or something, not OMGITSTOPPEDONTHEHIGHWAY)- it was just surprising.
 
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Well I left my crystal ball in the washing machine. Cameras can do quite alot. well even if you go IR
you still have the the issue of black hot or white hot. I guess it will have more stuff, radar seems
like it may win but there is lidar. It is complex to solve all the issues in rain, fog, snow and dirt.
Find a hot partner an let them drive, have your refreshments. I call this sex pilot + .
 
No becuase Teslas with radar aren’t using the radar.
They are still using the radar unless you are on FSD beta.

If you live in states with common 75-80mph speed limits (much of the west), then autopilot being limited to 80mph makes it much less useful. In that case, I would put a premium on radar. As for phantom braking, my radar MY very rarely slows down for no reason. It does it occasionally in construction zones, and it has slowed down once on curve on a two lane undivided highway when a semi was coming from the other direction and drifted towards the centerline. For comparison, I drove a vision M3 in florida and experienced regular slowdowns on divided highways, usually when passing semis going the same direction. It was quite annoying.
 
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