TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

WP - Utilities thrilled and worried

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by malcolm, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,143
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112200017.html

    Er, so why not plug the car in after you finish cooking? Or the timer switches it on later that night?
    It seems to me that if people buy electric cars, then that suggests that they are open to the concept of optimising recharging both for the anticipated mileage of the following day and via cheap rate electricity. You don't have to or need to fill the "tank" as fast as possible each evening. Pricing structures could be introduced to encourage more grid-friendly recharging behaviour.
     
  2. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    I don't remember any complaints when plasmas came out.

    A pretty balanced article though.
     
  3. ChargeIt!

    ChargeIt! Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    619
    Right. It's FUD (the on-peak simultaneous charging argument).

    BUT .... utilities (together with local permitting authorities) must also figure out how to cost-effectively encourage that off-peak usage. And I mean COST EFFECTIVELY ! It is *NOT* cost effective to require a second meter (or dual meter adapter) if it costs the homeowner (or apartment renter via the landlord) a ton of $$$, because
    -- an new panel needs to be installed;
    -- a service upgrade (100A to 200A for example) is required because of some unfavorable "simultaenous use" of all appliances (what they want to sell as a "load analysis");
    -- the new meter or monthly charges associated with it rob you of the off-peak rate energy cost savings.

    I am seeing/hearing of too many situations where the panel upgrade (or other cost expenditures) is not really "needed", because the homeowner/EV aspirant understands about the added load and is willing to compromise with a time-shifting strategy. Panel upgrades and other related costs can run into the Thousands of $$.

    Utilities must find a more cost effective solution by combining the use of smart meters and (many) EVSE's built-in energy use reporting. Unfortunately the utilities are in almost all cases ignoring the EVSE's features because they are not "revenue grade" (not good enough for them).

    Or ... why not use smart meters to distinguish load types ? Avoids that whole second-meter stuff. I know there's some of that in progress. But let's hurry up already ... :) And standardize methods across the thousands of utility companies across the USA.

    Or ... cut the customer some slack. Yes there will be some abusing the privilege ... but simply assume (or estimate or extrapolate) the new add-on usage (from the EV) over historical billings is the EV and gets billed favorably.

    Or ... install the second meter (subtractive billing) for free or at minimal cost to the customer.

    If the utilities agree to make it easier (read: cost effective) they will gain those new "customers" (EVs) in a hurry. :)
     
  4. roblab

    roblab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
    Having charged a RAV4EV for years (my only claim to fame), I am really really tired of having to haul around a charger. One of the smartest things Tesla has done is to make the motor controller also the charge controller, as if it were a regen charger. They continue to tell me that I will be able to plug into my 14-50 outlet in the garage, or at any RV park, or my brother's house, or, well, golly, where can you find electricity???. I DO NOT plan to advertise my EV to the county or city, OR to the Electric Company, but they can still sell me any electricity I don't make off my roof arrays. (yes, I have battery storage, too.) Let's see, No charger, No permits, No electrician's fees, Hmmm. I must be some kind of pinko commie, right? (Yeah, that shows my age, too.)
     
  5. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    Oh, I'm there with you. The EC does not know I have an EV, and it does not need to know. I replaced a couple of things with more efficient alternatives (e.g., a 300w halogen floor lamp with a 75w fluorescent torchiere) and based on usage, those simple bits of efficiency more than make up for what the Roadster uses. It really doesn't take a whole lot.
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    All Rav4 owners who want to keep their cars need to mount their chargers in the car or on the tire rack. Might as well do it now to take advantage of all the J connectors that are coming.
     
  8. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Right behind you...
    There are several intelligent charging strategies that can solve this problem and actually increase utility system flexibility to help handle the problems of lots of wind power on the system. I have been doing my PhD research on this and have several papers accepted, soon to be published, that show that with a little control this "nightmare" scenario will never happen. This control will also translate into lower electricity rates for charging your EV so everybody wins. I would post the papers here but I signed away the copyright to the IEEE. I will post a link though when they become available online.
     
  9. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,139
    Location:
    Central New York
    The previous homeowner had a single day/night meter installed and put the hot water heater on a timer. Between 11PM and 6AM all power is at a reduced rate. I'm not sure why it would need to be more complicated than that. The only problem is that my EV uses so little power I barely notice the difference no matter when I charge, but I'm never drawing more than 20 amps at 240 volts so it's not much of a strain on the grid.
     
  10. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,143
    Tesla have been thinking along the same lines: http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/how-we-see-it-%E2%80%93-tesla-evs-and-grid

     
  11. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    Good stuff Rolo!

    When you get your paper completed, you should send it to the radicals at lillith news ( http://www.lilithnews.com/2010/11/electric-cars-brownouts.html )...I think it is important to correct websites that post FUD when possible and it sounds like you're certainly qualified to do so. :smile:

     

Share This Page