Wyoming Supercharger build out 2016

[pox]

I did an overlay in photoshop to find out where Tesla is planing to add superchargers in Wyoming this year. Looks like Evanston, Rock Springs, Rawlins, Jackson and Wheatland. I drive about once month from Riverton to Salt Lake or Denver and could really use anything to charge up in Evanston and Rawlins. When I ordered my Tesla in late 2014 they had them on the 2015 map. I really hoped they get them in buy now. I have been managing by driving slow and minimal to no AC/Heat and using RV parks. This adds several hours to my trips. In my email's to the supercharger team they said the don't get a lot of request for I80 so it's not high priority. I'm afraid that it's only on the 2016 maps because they don't have a 2017 map yet. Anyone that could use chargers on this route? If so we might need to me more vocal and send out some email to [email protected].

 

[Cottonwood]

Looks like Evanston and Casper are on that map, also.

Wheatland and Casper extend I-25 to the north from Cheyenne nicely, while Evanston, Rock Springs, and Rawlins do a nice job connecting I-80 from Salt Lake City to Cheyenne. Of course, Jackson will make access to Yellowstone very nice.

I sure hope all of these happen in 2016. With the pace so far this year, the 2016 is looking a little aggressive.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Looks like Evanston and Casper are on that map, also.

Wheatland and Casper extend I-25 to the north from Cheyenne nicely, while Evanston, Rock Springs, and Rawlins do a nice job connecting I-80 from Salt Lake City to Cheyenne. Of course, Jackson will make access to Yellowstone very nice.

I sure hope all of these happen in 2016. With the pace so far this year, the 2016 is looking a little aggressive.

Cash is king, so I think we can assume a build pace that more closely matches sales from now on, and until the X ramps, I think thst means slow.

 

[pox]

I would be happy with some 80amp destination chargers, they have one now in Casper at the Hampton Inn that is up and running just not on the map yet. There are 2 HPWC's at only 40amps. I talked the hotel general manager in Laramie that manages both the hotels in Laramie and Casper. She said they had been there for months and no one has been using them. I explained to here they didn't have them on the maps yet and they should look into getting them 80amps. She said they would look into it and possibly adding chargers at the Laramie Hampton inn too. Hillton is working with GM and Tesla is pushing there properties to add chargers and will pay 100% for the install. http://news.hiltonworldwide.com/ind...on-of-charging-stations-for-electric-vehicles

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Cash is king, so I think we can assume a build pace that more closely matches sales from now on, and until the X ramps, I think thst means slow.

How much does it cost on average to build a Supercharger location? What is the profit when they sell of a Car? I referred about a dozen in the past 6 months, That should help out a little bit right?

 

[mspohr]

I did an overlay in photoshop to find out where Tesla is planing to add superchargers in Wyoming this year. Looks like Evanston, Rock Springs, Rawlins, Jackson and Wheatland. I drive about once month from Riverton to Salt Lake or Denver and could really use anything to charge up in Evanston and Rawlins. When I ordered my Tesla in late 2014 they had them on the 2015 map. I really hoped they get them in buy now. I have been managing by driving slow and minimal to no AC/Heat and using RV parks. This adds several hours to my trips. In my email's to the supercharger team they said the don't get a lot of request for I80 so it's not high priority. I'm afraid that it's only on the 2016 maps because they don't have a 2017 map yet. Anyone that could use chargers on this route? If so we might need to me more vocal and send out some email to [email protected].

Would love to see any of these built. Going to Tetons and then East this summer but no SC to the East. Have to go North to 90 or South to 70. Why not 80?

 

[ohmman]

Would love to see any of these built. Going to Tetons and then East this summer but no SC to the East. Have to go North to 90 or South to 70. Why not 80?

Same situation here. I'd love to see 80 done.

 

[mspohr]

I sent a note to Tesla and got this nice reply:
"Thank you for your email and feedback. We are planning to expand the network along I-80 through Wyoming but we cannot make guarantees about opening dates. There are a number of scenarios that can affect the timeline for a new site but we are working hard to open as many sites as quickly as we can. We understand the need for more Superchargers and we are excited to announce new sites on our website and in your Model S.

We appreciate your patience, enthusiasm and support in Tesla and our Supercharger technology.

Thank you,
The Tesla Supercharger Team

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I would be happy with some 80amp destination chargers, they have one now in Casper at the Hampton Inn that is up and running just not on the map yet. There are 2 HPWC's at only 40amps. I talked the hotel general manager in Laramie that manages both the hotels in Laramie and Casper. She said they had been there for months and no one has been using them. I explained to here they didn't have them on the maps yet and they should look into getting them 80amps. She said they would look into it and possibly adding chargers at the Laramie Hampton inn too. Hillton is working with GM and Tesla is pushing there properties to add chargers and will pay 100% for the install. http://news.hiltonworldwide.com/ind...on-of-charging-stations-for-electric-vehicles

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How much does it cost on average to build a Supercharger location? What is the profit when they sell of a Car? I referred about a dozen in the past 6 months, That should help out a little bit right?

I've seen numbers of anything from $160k to $300k per location, plus rent plus demand charges plus electricity cost. (The demand charges are really the big thing for them, I think. They're a reason why chargers really need pay up front or at the very least a subscription model. The kWhs can be such a small part of the cost that pay as you go doesn't work well at all.) At a build rate of 100 per year, quarterly construction costs would be $160k x 25 = $40M to $300M x 25 = $75M.

I'd also like to see I-80 done, but I just want to see Interstate completion. Lots of buyers in CA and WA, and the west has been filling in so much. It looks like I-15 has two locations known to fill it up to I-90, so filling in I-25 and I-80 would really make it look good on Supercharge.info.

 

[cpa]

Money, at least here in California, businesses also have to pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business. The base rate is 1% of the acquisition cost that gets a depreciation factor annually. I presume any changes to the parking lot would be added to the land owner's real property bill, but the wiring, charging stalls, chargers, enclosure and whatever other tangible property including labor and sales tax will be subject to our unsecured tax. We also have voted indebtedness and other add-ons that increase the rate to about 1.25%. (This varies by county.) While this may not be as significant as the electricity charges, with 25+ locations in California, this number starts to get larger.

And I do not know how the other states tax personal property, if at all. Does Maine?

 

[chargeshare]

I sent a note to Tesla and got this nice reply:
"Thank you for your email and feedback. We are planning to expand the network along I-80 through Wyoming but we cannot make guarantees about opening dates. There are a number of scenarios that can affect the timeline for a new site but we are working hard to open as many sites as quickly as we can. We understand the need for more Superchargers and we are excited to announce new sites on our website and in your Model S.

We appreciate your patience, enthusiasm and support in Tesla and our Supercharger technology.

Thank you,
The Tesla Supercharger Team

I also recently received a very similar response.

 

[GRA]

In addition to Jackson, they could really use an SC in W. Yellowstone (and Moran Junction wouldn't be a bad idea; there are people who live in Jackson who can afford Teslas, but they still might be cheap enough to hog the SCs). Wouldn't hurt to have one in Gardiner either. Add Cody at some point, Greybull etc. Oh, and one in Laramie, for people going to/from Colorado to I-80W.

 

[Rocky_H]

Money, at least here in California, businesses also have to pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business. The base rate is 1% of the acquisition cost that gets a depreciation factor annually. I presume any changes to the parking lot would be added to the land owner's real property bill, but the wiring, charging stalls, chargers, enclosure and whatever other tangible property including labor and sales tax will be subject to our unsecured tax. We also have voted indebtedness and other add-ons that increase the rate to about 1.25%. (This varies by county.) While this may not be as significant as the electricity charges, with 25+ locations in California, this number starts to get larger.

And I do not know how the other states tax personal property, if at all. Does Maine?

Tesla does not own any of the property of any of the Supercharger locations, so all of that is a non-issue. They just sign use agreements with the places that own the parking lots.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Money, at least here in California, businesses also have to pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business. The base rate is 1% of the acquisition cost that gets a depreciation factor annually. I presume any changes to the parking lot would be added to the land owner's real property bill, but the wiring, charging stalls, chargers, enclosure and whatever other tangible property including labor and sales tax will be subject to our unsecured tax. We also have voted indebtedness and other add-ons that increase the rate to about 1.25%. (This varies by county.) While this may not be as significant as the electricity charges, with 25+ locations in California, this number starts to get larger.

And I do not know how the other states tax personal property, if at all. Does Maine?

It is much the same here. Personal property, as opposed to real property, is taxed when the depreciated value is over a certain threshold. Examples would include the equipment and furnishings in a restaurant or hotel. For our tiny county, population about 4500, it is more trouble than it is worth (I work for the assessor's office as a volunteer). But Supercharger installations would be charged property taxes in Colorado even if Tesla doesn't own the underlying real estate, in my judgment.

 

[cpa]

Tesla does not own any of the property of any of the Supercharger locations, so all of that is a non-issue. They just sign use agreements with the places that own the parking lots.

RockyH, I specifically said, "...pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business." Personalty is personal property, as opposed to real property. Hence, the taxes are unsecured because the county cannot place a lien on the assets as they can be moved. Tesla owns the Supercharger infrastructure, so Tesla pays the unsecured property taxes. Believe me, I complete our Business Property Statements each April for my business clients. Moreover, California has a possessory interest tax applied to real property that is owned by an exempt entity (like a government) that is leased to a business. So, at those locations in California (like Mammoth Lakes) where Tesla leases the parking spaces from the city, Tesla will also have a small possessory interest property tax to pay, also unsecured.

I checked at tax.idaho.gov, and your fine state also levies property taxes on personal property used in a trade or business.

Rocky, I confess to being ignorant and stupid when it comes to physics, all forms of engineering, computers, cars and many of the other discussions about our autos. I am OK with that. I have been a licensed certified public accountant nearly forty years. I know what I am doing, and my clients will validate this fact. Please have the courtesy not to dispute statements that are outside your educational and work experience without at least doing some research first. Thanks! :smile:

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Money, at least here in California, businesses also have to pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business. The base rate is 1% of the acquisition cost that gets a depreciation factor annually. I presume any changes to the parking lot would be added to the land owner's real property bill, but the wiring, charging stalls, chargers, enclosure and whatever other tangible property including labor and sales tax will be subject to our unsecured tax. We also have voted indebtedness and other add-ons that increase the rate to about 1.25%. (This varies by county.) While this may not be as significant as the electricity charges, with 25+ locations in California, this number starts to get larger.

And I do not know how the other states tax personal property, if at all. Does Maine?

Yes. Not sure what's covered, and what's exempt. Major changes came in in 2007.

 

[W0QR]

Baloney!

I80 not important?! It's one of the most traveled interstates! I have the easterly version of your Wyoming situation. Nebraska--all I80--has NO Superchargers at all. They were on the 2015 map but no longer. They're on the 2016 map (just like they were on the 2015 map) but I see no permits let alone construction. So we're in the same boat regarding I80.

 

[Rocky_H]

RockyH, I specifically said, "...pay unsecured property taxes on all personalty used in a trade or business." Personalty is personal property, as opposed to real property. Hence, the taxes are unsecured because the county cannot place a lien on the assets as they can be moved. Tesla owns the Supercharger infrastructure, so Tesla pays the unsecured property taxes. Believe me, I complete our Business Property Statements each April for my business clients. Moreover, California has a possessory interest tax applied to real property that is owned by an exempt entity (like a government) that is leased to a business. So, at those locations in California (like Mammoth Lakes) where Tesla leases the parking spaces from the city, Tesla will also have a small possessory interest property tax to pay, also unsecured.

I checked at tax.idaho.gov, and your fine state also levies property taxes on personal property used in a trade or business.

Rocky, I confess to being ignorant and stupid when it comes to physics, all forms of engineering, computers, cars and many of the other discussions about our autos. I am OK with that. I have been a licensed certified public accountant nearly forty years. I know what I am doing, and my clients will validate this fact. Please have the courtesy not to dispute statements that are outside your educational and work experience without at least doing some research first. Thanks! :smile:

On the equipment, yes, I get that, and I have a friend who does have a small milling/metal finishing business and has mentioned about having to pay the taxes on the equipment he owns. I was specifying that they do not own the property, as in the actual land, as many people think they do. Sorry for my bad phrasing when I said "all of that". I meant referring to regular property kind of property tax. Sorry for being confusing there.

 

[pox]

I80 not important?! It's one of the most traveled interstates! I have the easterly version of your Wyoming situation. Nebraska--all I80--has NO Superchargers at all. They were on the 2015 map but no longer. They're on the 2016 map (just like they were on the 2015 map) but I see no permits let alone construction. So we're in the same boat regarding I80.

I feel your pain, It's has to be even worse over in Nebraska than Wyoming is right now. If I knew for sure we wheren't getting any chargers this year I would sponsor a 100amp level 2 charger in few spots I travel mosts Sponsor a Charger - Item Details | Sun Country Highway
It's about 2k but you get to pick the location.

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I sent a note to Tesla and got this nice reply:
"Thank you for your email and feedback. We are planning to expand the network along I-80 through Wyoming but we cannot make guarantees about opening dates. There are a number of scenarios that can affect the timeline for a new site but we are working hard to open as many sites as quickly as we can. We understand the need for more Superchargers and we are excited to announce new sites on our website and in your Model S.

We appreciate your patience, enthusiasm and support in Tesla and our Supercharger technology.

Thank you,
The Tesla Supercharger Team

Looks like a they copy and paste this response, as this is the one I got too:

Hi Mr. Lawson,

Thank you for your email and feedback. We are still in the early stages of scouting for sites in Wyoming and we are unable to estimate opening dates. There are a number of scenarios that can affect the timeline for a new site but we are working hard to open as many sites as quickly as we can. We understand the need for more Superchargers and we are excited to announce new sites on our website and in your Model S.

We appreciate your patience, enthusiasm and support in Tesla and our Supercharger technology.

Thank you,
The Tesla Supercharger Team

 

[Tedkidd]

In addition to Jackson, they could really use an SC in W. Yellowstone (and Moran Junction wouldn't be a bad idea; there are people who live in Jackson who can afford Teslas, but they still might be cheap enough to hog the SCs). Wouldn't hurt to have one in Gardiner either. Add Cody at some point, Greybull etc. Oh, and one in Laramie, for people going to/from Colorado to I-80W.

I think there were 5-6 Tesla's summering in Jackson last year up from 3 the year before. Most go west for the winter though, and that route is live.

My aunt and uncle come East, then south and had to travel via Montana and the first year the car stayed in Jackson. So I/ve been following the build out in that area. The 80 desert has been a pretty gaping hole for some time, with the map promising the hole would fill in the next year since what, 2014?

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have had an early Tesla in Riverton. They way they've managed the map is almost sadistic.

 

[pox]

I think there were 5-6 Tesla's summering in Jackson last year up from 3 the year before. Most go west for the winter though, and that route is live.

My aunt and uncle come East, then south and had to travel via Montana and the first year the car stayed in Jackson. So I/ve been following the build out in that area. The 80 desert has been a pretty gaping hole for some time, with the map promising the hole would fill in the next year since what, 2014?

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have had an early Tesla in Riverton. They way they've managed the map is almost sadistic.

It's a bit frustrating that they keep putting the chargers on the edges of the state, Cheyenne is almost in Colorado, Lusk, Gillette and Sheridan are barely in Wyoming too. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the mountains, crazy strong winds and high speed limits. Driving like an ICE car at 80MPH just kills may range to under 200 miles if I want to stay warm and not have people passing me non stop. I've been able to make it work for the past year, just drive 55MPH or less and dress really warm. Make friends at the RV parks. In Nebraska they don't have any super chargers yet but at least its all super flat so you can get better range on a charge.