X owner claims unintended acceleration caused accident

[Scrith]

I have big feet, and sometimes I hit both pedals, BUT the Tesla doesn't accelerate when I do that. It just chimes.

That's interesting, because I also have big feet (US size 16) and had a couple of problems with hitting both pedals during May and June, but nothing since (I should also note that there is something about the pedals in the Model X that seems to make this unusually likely to happen for me, since I've never had the problem in other cars since I started driving over 30 years ago).

Maybe Tesla did something in the firmware to fix this (I did write them saying that they should ignore accelerator pedal inputs if the brake pedal is also detected, but never heard back from them).

 

[mhan00]

Believe it or not, people run into buildings all the time with their ICE vehicles. My ex-mother-in-law drove through the front window of the same 7-11 not once but twice before her kids took her car keys away.

There is no evidence there is any connection between no creep driving and this sort of accident.

People are just clumsy sometimes.

Holy crap. I assume no one was hurt, and thus wish someone took a picture of the expression of the 7-11 guy when he realized the same lady took out his store again, because I would love to see it.

 

[mhan00]

The accelerator pedal uses two independent hall effect sensors. These are both routed through different wiring harnesses on each side of the car and eventually go directly to the inverter at the rear motor. These sensors each have their own offsets so they can be compared for consistency/accuracy. If the readings from the sensors don't perfectly pass sanity checks in the inverter then the car doesn't move and it throws an alert to the driver to that effect.

The brakes on cars with the iBooster system (all autopilot cars) have about 6 different sensors for braking related data. The pedal switch, the iBooster position, and the ESP2's braking force per wheel. The brakes are a mechanical system using hydraulics with the iBooster providing assistance. Even with no power the brakes can be used with sufficient force, just like steering.

For autopilot, the system does not command acceleration. The autopilot module tells the inverter, via the gateway, the maximum speed to achieve at the time and a maximum rate of acceleration or deceleration (capped at something like 2m/s^2). The inverter then takes this data along with all of the wheel speeds, among other things, and does the speed changes requested by the ADAS system. Under no circumstances, with the software as it stands, can the autopilot system command acceleration similar to a pedal-to-the-floor situation. The inverter also has a direct connection to the brake sense switch and cancels all actions not directly commanded by the driver (cruise control, autopilot, autopark, etc) immediately upon pressing the brake. In any case, the autopilot system only requests limits to speed and acceleration. It never commands a particular pedal position or anything similar. Its abilities are literally just an extension of the cruise control system.

And let's note that all of the above is logged, over a dozen related data points, not just pedal and brakes.

Long story short, it is *impossible* for these cars to accelerate at anywhere near full power unless the driver commands it via the accelerator pedal. It doesn't matter what the driver claims afterward. If the car accelerated, the accelerator pedal was pressed. Simple as that. Anyone claiming otherwise is wrong/lying.

The accelerator pedal uses two independent hall effect sensors. These are both routed through different wiring harnesses on each side of the car and eventually go directly to the inverter at the rear motor. These sensors each have their own offsets so they can be compared for consistency/accuracy. If the readings from the sensors don't perfectly pass sanity checks in the inverter then the car doesn't move and it throws an alert to the driver to that effect.

The brakes on cars with the iBooster system (all autopilot cars) have about 6 different sensors for braking related data. The pedal switch, the iBooster position, and the ESP2's braking force per wheel. The brakes are a mechanical system using hydraulics with the iBooster providing assistance. Even with no power the brakes can be used with sufficient force, just like steering.

For autopilot, the system does not command acceleration. The autopilot module tells the inverter, via the gateway, the maximum speed to achieve at the time and a maximum rate of acceleration or deceleration (capped at something like 2m/s^2). The inverter then takes this data along with all of the wheel speeds, among other things, and does the speed changes requested by the ADAS system. Under no circumstances, with the software as it stands, can the autopilot system command acceleration similar to a pedal-to-the-floor situation. The inverter also has a direct connection to the brake sense switch and cancels all actions not directly commanded by the driver (cruise control, autopilot, autopark, etc) immediately upon pressing the brake. In any case, the autopilot system only requests limits to speed and acceleration. It never commands a particular pedal position or anything similar. Its abilities are literally just an extension of the cruise control system.

And let's note that all of the above is logged, over a dozen related data points, not just pedal and brakes.

Long story short, it is *impossible* for these cars to accelerate at anywhere near full power unless the driver commands it via the accelerator pedal. It doesn't matter what the driver claims afterward. If the car accelerated, the accelerator pedal was pressed. Simple as that. Anyone claiming otherwise is wrong/lying.

This is great information. Thanks.

 

[mhan00]

The info was so good, I guess I felt the need to quote it twice.

 

[EinSV]

Holy crap. I assume no one was hurt, and thus wish someone took a picture of the expression of the 7-11 guy when he realized the same lady took out his store again, because I would love to see it.

No idea if it was the same 7-11 guy but if so would have been pretty funny. No one hurt so far as I know, thankfully.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Yep, I took issue before with relying 100% on logs as the be-all-end-all. I too asked the, "What if?" question, and it still nagged me because I wouldn't want to be blamed if my car really did accelerate on its own. After the great information @wk057 offered, though, I can see the vehicle is obviously wired to prevent this issue from occurring, making it impossible to happen "by itself." Once again, I trust Tesla's word on the logs!

The 'What if' question will have to be addressed more and more as tech takes over. but this isn't just about acceleration. tech is only as good as the imperfect humans who create it. we see stories of people hacking a car from miles away. It won't be long until someone will be able to do this with ease... and the driver of the vehicle will say it just swerved on its own... and nobody will believe him.
anything is possible and having a closed mind is the worst attitude.

:thumbsup: int32t

 

[CuriousG]

What does gear shift position have to do with mistaking accelerator for brake?

Tesla says the car was going 6mph when the accelerator was pressed to 100%, so no one was attempting to shift into "park".

Sure is easy to dispute when you have more information than when I was speculating from this message https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1569848/ next time don't quote messages from almost 4 months ago BEFORE Tesla released any data. Given that Tesla has refuted what the driver says and @wk057 snapshot evidence.

 

[brucet999]

Sure is easy to dispute when you have more information than when I was speculating from this message https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1569848/ next time don't quote messages from almost 4 months ago BEFORE Tesla released any data. Given that Tesla has refuted what the driver says and @wk057 snapshot evidence.

Sorry, didn't see date.

 

[lklundin]

What would you do if you were in the position of knowing you were right, but proven wrong?

A few options come to mind:
1) You (and preferably others too) voice concerns strong enough to cause an investigation by the NTSB. This will likely determine if software or something else was at fault.
2) You are delusional and wrongly convinced of being right. The world goes on as it is.
3) You are in fact right and the whole world is against you. You are Winston Smith, trapped in a terrible simulation made for the entertainment of super intelligent shades of blue.

 

[Barklikeadog]

A few options come to mind:
1) You (and preferably others too) voice concerns strong enough to cause an investigation by the NTSB. This will likely determine if software or something else was at fault.
2) You are delusional and wrongly convinced of being right. The world goes on as it is.
3) You are in fact right and the whole world is against you. You are Winston Smith, trapped in a terrible simulation made for the entertainment of super intelligent shades of blue.

4) Brendan Dassey

 

[vandacca]

There hasn't been any Tesla Unintended Nasty Acceleration (TUNA) accidents for some time (sounds fishy, right?). So I wanted to post the difference between a TUNA and a HUNA (Honda Unintended Nasty Acceleration) for comparison.

This lovely 81 year-old lady (only minor injuries) crashed her Honda into the side of a building.

 

[mspohr]

There hasn't been any Tesla Unintended Nasty Acceleration (TUNA) accidents for some time (sounds fishy, right?). So I wanted to post the difference between a TUNA and a HUNA (Honda Unintended Nasty Acceleration) for comparison.

This lovely 81 year-old lady (only minor injuries) crashed her Honda into the side of a building.

Wow... Honda has flying cars!

 

[CuriousG]

Wow... Honda has flying cars!

She's 81. Maybe she had a meet Jesus moment.

 

[Pilot Steve]

I wonder if these individuals are using creep. I believe if they were maybe these type of unintended acceleration would be cut in half. Imho

 

[mspohr]

I wonder if these individuals are using creep. I believe if they were maybe these type of unintended acceleration would be cut in half. Imho

Creep isn't strong enough to cause these crashes.
I have creep on and find that it's useful for giving me an indication that the car is in forward or reverse before I apply the go pedal. If I think the car is in reverse but it's actually in forward, it will creep a bit forward to alert me not to press the go pedal. Without creep on, I wouldn't know it was in forward until I pressed the go pedal (perhaps too hard) with unintended consequences.

 

[JeffK]

Creep isn't strong enough to cause these crashes.

No one said it was.

I have creep on and find that it's useful for giving me an indication that the car is in forward or reverse before I apply the go pedal. If I think the car is in reverse but it's actually in forward, it will creep a bit forward to alert me not to press the go pedal. Without creep on, I wouldn't know it was in forward until I pressed the go pedal (perhaps too hard) with unintended consequences.

So you are both agreeing

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@vandacca That low battery indeed is useful in unintended acceleration situations!

Put them together and there's more morals in a chipmunk than this pair of fools.

Well, given that you've later felt Tesla as a corporation has no morals at all, they make for a great threesome. No?

That said, it is a wise husband that remains loyal to the Mrs.