X owner claims unintended acceleration caused accident

[JC86]

Why would they do that and open themselves up to lawsuits etc? That would make no sense.

I have yet to see the owner's response to Tesla's findings but I would imagine that he's going to stick to his guns and insist that his wife knew what she was doing and that its still the car's fault for accelerating into the building. If the logs were examined by an independent third party and confirmed that it was operator error, I think it would lend more credibility to Tesla's statement. Again, my initial reaction to reading about this story was confirmed in that it was probably the driver mistaking the gas pedal with the brake pedal.

I'm guessing that the vast majority of traffic accidents are caused by operator error, allowing driver access to the logs for evidence preservation should have no actual legal ramification to Tesla.

Now if Tesla is in the wrong and had a bug that caused an accident, opening up the logs to the driver would mean they can't just cover it up and claim otherwise, which I think is a good thing. \

 

[mspohr]

While I do tend to believe that this was a case of operator error as opposed to any serious bug in the car itself, I am curious as to the integrity of the drive logs.

In other words, how do we know that Tesla hasn't modified the logs to reflect their preferred narrative of an accident to minimize negative press?

I would like to know, that in the event of a serious accident, is there any way I can download the drive logs onto a USB drive to preserve as evidence? In this case, perhaps an accident deconstructionist can review both your copy of the logs and the version Tesla downloaded from the car to see if they're consistent.

In a more general context, the logs could prove helpful in determining liability in an accident, what speed you were traveling at when the collision occurred, perhaps even the status of the traffic lights due to AP camera etc. I would imagine that law enforcement and attorneys would all love to have access to this sort of information to better determine liability.

Car manufacturers have been putting black boxes in cars for years (almost all new cars today have them). There are well established procedures for accessing the data and ensuring its integrity. Each state has different laws regarding access, etc. but this is not new territory.
Who Can Access Your Private EDR Data?
http://www.ncsl.org/research/teleco...rivacy-of-data-from-event-data-recorders.aspx

 

[JC86]

@JC86 - consider the logs Tesla pulls as the black box of an airplane. For any evidence to be used legally, the LE has to be able to pull the data themselves or they will work with the manufacturer to pull the data. Any evidence pulled by an individual especially one who is an interested party is not going to meet the needs.

I agree that if LE pulled the logs and made the determination that it was operator error, this is a non-issue. My understanding of what occurred, however, is that Tesla downloaded the logs and made this determination. If that is the case, Tesla is also an interested party in this dispute and the credibility of their findings could be questioned.

Again, I don't think the car/Tesla is at fault in this particular instance. I think that a more transparent approach could shut up a lot of the nay sayers and down the road, in the event of an accident, help LE determine liability in a collision, which is a good thing.

 

[Caligula]

That damage isn't even close to totaling a $100K+ vehicle. It's not a cheap repair, though.

I see you aren't familiar with how easily Model S' get totaled out. My friend's P85 got rear ended and it resulted in a total loss. The damage was MUCH less extensive than this.

 

[Az_Rael]

I have yet to see the owner's response to Tesla's findings but I would imagine that he's going to stick to his guns and insist that his wife knew what she was doing and that its still the car's fault for accelerating into the building

He is sticking to his guns. Electrek got a updated statement from him

Tesla logs show that Model X driver hit the accelerator, Autopilot didn’t crash into building on its own

 

[xkwizit]

Bottom line is that
1. The insurance company and Tesla will retain the car for a while till the investigation is complete
2. So it won't even get to repairs if the Insurance company is at all interested in getting it repaired
3. This happened on just the fifth day of ownership..I feel sorry for the family who likely just started to enjoy their beautiful Model X and will be out of it for months now.

 

[tliving]

Bottom line is that
1. The insurance company and Tesla will retain the car for a while till the investigation is complete
2. So it won't even get to repairs if the Insurance company is at all interested in getting it repaired
3. This happened on just the fifth day of ownership..I feel sorry for the family who likely just started to enjoy their beautiful Model X and will be out of it for months now.

Have to agree here, not good for anyone involved. They're out a nice X and Tesla gets some negative press from the sharks.

 

[vandacca]

The problem with Tesla vehicles, is that most people are transitioning from a simple 2-pedal operation to a more sophisticated, mostly 1-pedal operation.

Most people are used to driving with 2 pedals, one to accelerate and one to slow down/stop. With regen brakes, we are mostly driving with one pedal, but it takes time to re-wire the brain to this type of driving. Driving a Tesla requires one to lift the pedal to slow down/stop, but in a panic, they may press the same pedal.

Said in a slightly different way, the driver can use the right pedal to slow down (by lifting the foot off of it) and this pedal is hence associated with slowing down. When it's time to brake hard, the foot that the pedal is currently on to slow down, can easily be mistaken as the pedal used to completely stop, especially if there is any small distractions.

I think this will be a very common issue for a period of time while people make the transition. There might be a very good reason for standardizing gas/brake pedals in vehicles over the past 100+ years.

 

[commasign]

The problem with Tesla vehicles, is that most people are transitioning from a simple 2-pedal operation to a more sophisticated, mostly 1-pedal operation.

Most people are used to driving with 2 pedals, one to accelerate and one to slow down/stop. With regen brakes, we are mostly driving with one pedal, but it takes time to re-wire the brain to this type of driving. Driving a Tesla requires one to lift the pedal to slow down/stop, but in a panic, they may press the same pedal.

Said in a slightly different way, the driver can use the right pedal to slow down (by lifting the foot off of it) and this pedal is hence associated with slowing down. When it's time to brake hard, the foot that the pedal is currently on to slow down, can easily be mistaken as the pedal used to completely stop, especially if there is any small distractions.

I think this will be a very common issue for a period of time while people make the transition. There might be a very good reason for standardizing gas/brake pedals in vehicles over the past 100+ years.

I leave creep on for this very reason. To basically remind my brain to keep my foot on the brake pedal whenever I don't want the car to move, and to assume that if my foot isn't on the brake, the car will move.

 

[X Yes?]

I'm sure their lawyer won't take Tesla's word that "the logs said it was their fault" So we'll know more after an independent investigation.

Silver lining: Appears all the safety systems deployed correctly.

 

[X Fan]

Combining a vehicle that accelerates very fast with a very brief driver mistake you can very easily get a smashed building

 

[JonathanDandrea]

I bet this guy is hating life right now having to defend his wife when he knows she's wrong. My wife backed into a mailbox a few months back, I should have blamed it on autopilot and sued Tesla to fix our taillight....

 

[swesson]

I agree with @ecarfan that the reaction doesn't seem "odd". It probably wouldn't be the way I'd phrase things - that Tesla should stop deliveries - but I can see that being a reaction of some people.

It feels odd to hope that it was a driver error, but obviously it's best for everyone involved if that's what happened. That result would mean the rest of the cars on the road are safe. I'm just hopeful they get to the bottom of it quickly, and the owner's wife's burns heal rapidly.

Good point. In the Navy, every pilot wishes the investigation of crashes determines that the cause was 'pilot error' vs. mechanical failure. The reason for this is that every pilot believes they are a good pilot and 'it couldn't happen to them', but a mechanical failure can happen to anyone.

 

[Oceanwolf]

I bet this guy is hating life right now having to defend his wife when he knows she's wrong. My wife backed into a mailbox a few months back, I should have blamed it on autopilot and sued Tesla to fix our taillight....

Years ago, my wife took out the front bumper in a covered parking space support and blamed me that I parked it in there. If we had the summon mode I could have blamed on that.

 

[Caligula]

Years ago, my wife took out the front bumper in a covered parking space support and blamed me that I parked it in there. If we had the summon mode I could have blamed on that.

This reminds me of the toilet seat argument currently going on in my house.

 

[zambono]

I bet this guy is hating life right now having to defend his wife when he knows she's wrong. My wife backed into a mailbox a few months back, I should have blamed it on autopilot and sued Tesla to fix our taillight....

The guy is between a rock and a hard place, lol. In his mind it's like dammit we just bought it this week. dammit. He can't just put his wife out there in public knowing it was her doing. He shouldn't have gone public with it really. If the car gets fixed its a tainted car, if it gets totaled depending on insurance and whatever they put down they might be underwater.

 

[Alketi]

I think it's not too hard to imagine what's likely to have happened here. Unfortunately for this guy, he got out in front of it and decided to both go public and go hard when he likely didn't have all the facts at hand.

The more interesting thing to me (and note that I'm not blaming Tesla in any way) is that we're probably 6-12 months away from solving this type of accident forever given the presence of front-facing sensors. People do accidentally hit the accelerator, and it's especially dangerous given the amount of torque and HP under your foot in a Tesla has been previously reserved for 2-seat supercars only seen on the Canonball Run. I imagine these accidents will disappear in 2017, at least on new Teslas.

 

[cclaygo]

3. This happened on just the fifth day of ownership..I feel sorry for the family who likely just started to enjoy their beautiful Model X and will be out of it for months now.

I think he'll be out of it for a lot longer with his blame game. I can't imagine Elon shipping him another....blacklisted anyone?

 

[FlatSix911]

Pilot error confirmed by logs:

Tesla logs show that Model X driver hit the accelerator, Autopilot didn’t crash into building on its own

A Tesla spokesperson sent us the following statement after reviewing the vehicle’s logs:

“We analyzed the vehicle logs which confirm that this Model X was operating correctly under manual control and was never in Autopilot or cruise control at the time of the incident or in the minutes before. Data shows that the vehicle was traveling at 6 mph when the accelerator pedal was abruptly increased to 100%. Consistent with the driver’s actions, the vehicle applied torque and accelerated as instructed. Safety is the top priority at Tesla and we engineer and build our cars with this foremost in mind. We are pleased that the driver is ok and ask our customers to exercise safe behavior when using our vehicles.”

 

[JeffS]

From Vandacca
"The problem with Tesla vehicles, is that most people are transitioning from a simple 2-pedal operation to a more sophisticated, mostly 1-pedal operation."

This was a great post earlier in the thread. 2 things to add to it.

1. This is a great reason to not lend your car.
2. Once Tesla is second nature to you, it's even harder going back to a 20th century car. Getting in to my truck...I have to unlearn quite a few habits to drive it safely.

Glad everyone was ok. Bad day for the X driver and family. Very bad day. But everyone was ok. So...