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X pectations

Discussion in 'Model X' started by MaxK, May 8, 2015.

  1. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    My X pectation for the Model X is that is will be as good as other luxury automobiles / CUVs / SUVs in every way. The Model S was playing catch-up in luxury features for the first 2 years and is still behind in some luxury features (of course way ahead in many others and a wonderful car overall). My expectation is that I am not the equivalent of a Model S buyer in October 2014 only to have P85D come out a month later. I know, cars are always improving and blah blah blah. As I long as I have waited for my Signature X, I expect it to equal other luxury automobiles in nearly all areas and exceed them in many others. This is not unreasonable to expect from a $125,000 automobile.

    I would be interested to know how my expectations for the X compare to your own expectations. The following is not a wish list or a list that Tesla could act upon at this late stage, but rather a list of available technologies and features that I expect the car to offer. The software to operate these may download later, but the hardware needs to be present at the time of delivery. (Some of these are already offered in the S):

    Hands free driving on Highways – full sensor suite installed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i-t0C7RQWM

    Rear view camera on rear view mirror
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRTLEuly9ek

    Around View monitor similar or better than Infiniti's (360 degree top view)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JwJj6BlpJ0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM5OI_S7LfA

    Recording of the Around View monitor (ie 360 degree dash cam recording)

    Night-vision systems, like the BMW and Mercedes systems
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31KQWMU_8sE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DojthARCO6k

    Full automatic braking – forward - for cars and pedestrian detection
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voz4dosVGSM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY7BttPpXvU

    Full automatic braking – reverse - for cars, pedestrian and object detection
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeOhfaVoud0

    Adaptive cruise control
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=own_VaRZ9M8

    Lane departure warning and Automatic lane maintenance
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdtVe1Pnayg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSzEi8dlFIc

    Blind spot warning
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYActaJsOEw

    Automatic park assist with remote operation
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPby2ALLnE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjcpxMnKkfg

    Automatic high beam control with shading
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL9x8oI8MQw

    Adaptive headlights – curve into turn (active bending headlights)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ynhhrR0egQ

    Side view mirror cameras pre-installed allowing mirror removal upon approval

    P version available with low 3 second 0-60 times

    4G LTE

    Perfect crash rating

    250 mile minimum EPA rating for the P version

    92+ kwH battery (battery chemistry better than the current 2009 chemistry)

    Heated and Cooled seats

    2nd row luxury / executive seating

    Great internal storage and cup holders

    Towing up to 4,500 lbs
     
  2. spentan

    spentan Active Member

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    Looks good.

    In for all of these
     
  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    My expectations are simple:

    1. Same safety accolades as Model S
    2. 230 real world miles
    3. Comparable features to Model S

    That's it.
     
  4. DrGuest

    DrGuest Member

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    #4 DrGuest, May 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    +100 on this. Deer, elk, moose really make driving at night a stressful experience. I really want night vision. Here is a company called Nav.tv that installs aftermarket FLIR systems, but I would have to add another monitor below my 17" Screen, which would be a bit much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7box0EU_9Cs



    Night-vision systems, like the BMW and Mercedes systems

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31KQWMU_8sE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DojthARCO6k
     
  5. Blastphemy

    Blastphemy Member

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    These are the ones I would at least expect a $100k+ car to have since many $50-75k cars already do.

    We already know the Model X will have AutoPilot, so Adaptive Cruise Control and Blind-Spot Warning are assured.

    I know cooled seats supposedly decrease range a bit, but I don't care! I WANT IT! It's too hot out here to own a car without it.
     
  6. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I'm always curious when I see these lists of expectations compiled against what is available on other cars, if people would compile lists for THOSE cars saying 'able to accelerate like a bat outta hell', 'always full every morning when I go to the garage', 'manufacturer puts free fueling stations across the continent for my use', 'no more oil changes', etc.

    Yes, I'd love all this stuff too. But I want what it will have even more. It's not lacking if something here is missing. Maybe the other cars are lacking because they don't have what this one has.

    Perspective.
     
  7. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    Bonnie, your reply reminds me of an old story (paraphrasing below):

    A guy approaches a woman in a bar and offers her $1,000,000 to spend the night with him. She ponders his offer and decides that she would do that for $1,000,000. He then replies, Would you spend the night with me for $100? She replies, NO!, what do you think I am, a prostitute. He replies, We have already determined that, now we are just negotiating the price.

    You seem to object, 'are curious' to a list of expectations, but then go on to list your own expectations for the car. I profer that you are already an Expectationer, we are just discussing what those expectations are. Yours include:
    100% electric (you expect Tesla to not install a range extending gas engine in the Model X). [no oil changes & always full]
    Sub 6 second 0-60 times ['able to accelerate like a bat outta hell']
    Supercharging included at no cost [free fueling stations]
    Probably others, such as a battery larger than 10KwH. etc etc etc
     
  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I think you missed my point completely. Completely. Since you did, I'll explain. People seem to list what they must have on the Model S or Model X and rationalize it by saying 'because other cars in this price range have these things'. Yet when they talk about those cars, they don't demand what some cars in that price range (Teslas) have.

    It's not about my expectations. It's about shopping for the car that fits YOUR needs. It does not matter what other cars have. It matters if the car YOU buy has what YOU want.

    But thanks for comparing me to a prostitute. :)
     
  9. timf

    timf Member

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    My expectations start with the current Model S and add what we know about Model X.

    Reasonable Expectations
    - All features available on Model S except opening panoramic roof.
    - Fixed glass roof extending over driver's seat and upper panels of falcon wing doors.
    - Same battery and performance options as Model S D. No bigger batteries in the first year.
    - 10% less range than comparable Model S.
    - Acceleration times within 10% of comparable Model S.
    - Towing capability is optional (may require P85D) and is not a consideration for me.
    - Improved interior with additional cup holders and storage spaces, but still minimalistic compared to other vehicles.
    - New paint colors and interior decor options not currently available on Model S.
    - LTE and other CPU hardware enhancements

    Hopeful but not counting on it
    - Around view camera
    - Ventilated seat option
    - Electronic tinting for overhead glass
    - Indicator on side mirrors for blind spot warning
    - Dark brown seating option

    Not expecting in any way
    - Cameras replacing side mirrors (now or as a retrofit) or rear view mirror
    - Night vision
    - Head up display
    - Adaptive high beams (not even legal in the U.S.)
    - Built-in dash cam recording capability
     
  10. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    Bonnie, you miss the point. I reserved the Tesla, therefore it is a given that I value what Tesla has and the other cars do not. If I was buying one of those cars, I would want it to be as good as the Tesla, but I am not. I am buying the Tesla and want it to be as good as they are in a number of areas. Not unreasonable. And yes, I am entitled to my expectations. Will I be disappointed on one or two of these, maybe (I hope not too many), but I will also probably be pleasantly surprised on a few features.

    There is an information vacuum related to the Model X. Since Tesla has yet to announce features and may not right up to delivery, then it is difficult to do as you say: "It's about shopping for the car that fits YOUR needs. It does not matter what other cars have. It matters if the car YOU buy has what YOU want". It is human nature to attempt to fill the information void. Some of us enjoy the experience, others do not. If you don't, then stay out of a thread relating to expectations or speculation etc.

    But please, do not tell me how to buy a car, what to expect in a car, what to speculate about based upon mule photos and how to think, feel and live my life. You have a record of doing so on this forum!

    No I was not calling you a prostitute, just a hyprocrite.
     
  11. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    You do realize her initial comment wasn't specifically targeted at you, nor was her point how *you* should feel about it. It was commentary on these types of threads, and her take.

    You may need to lighten up a bit.
     
  12. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    If each and every one of these expectations is not met, will you be canceling your signature reservation?
     
  13. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    Great topic, thank you all for contributing different views.

    To share mine, I think premium ICEs and Teslas have one thing in common, both are missing "expectations" due to inherent limitations of their platforms:

    - ICEs are not having or getting e.g. free gasoline above due to the limitations of the ICE
    - EVs won't get some features anytime soon due to limitations of the EV, no super-fast topping up, no 500+ mile range, less infra

    Neither are about to change anytime soon. Eventually EVs of course can fix some of those. But the main difference is, Tesla cars are in addition to this missing many of the convenience features of above due to being a small/new manufacturer and simply not having "gotten there yet", a limitation not shared by their ICE competitors. Hence I'd say the expectations on Tesla are a bit different. Tesla can actually be expected to fix many missing things faster as they mature, because their limit on some issues is not inherent to the platform.

    Many of the auto-pilot "2" features seem plausible if DRIVE PX is on-board from the get-go. Very good and complete list in the first post, I think. I'll add some convenience features I'd like to see, in addition to the ones above, based on German premiums:

    - HUD
    - 4+ zone AC
    - Open trunk by "kicking" under the car
    - Cooled/heated cup holders
    - Multi-program massaging seats (w/ indirect ventilation)
    - Ability to move passenger seats from driver's, front passenger seat from rear
    - Electric shades in rear side, back as well as all sky windows
    - Rear-seat touch screens (not just entertainment but actual control, see camera views, control navi etc.)
    - Rear-seat fridge with Tesla engraved cooled glasses inside
    - Flag poles, how can you not have factory-option flag poles! American Dummkopfs

    OK, so maybe I've been spoiled by German option lists a little. To compromise, I can do without the trunk kick option. Must have flag poles, though, otherwise I'll cancel my reservation for sure. Well, maybe I could swap that requirement for exterior wood paneling. Maybe.
     
  14. mikevbf

    mikevbf Member

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    Thanks Bonnie. I have not laughed so hard in months.
     
  15. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    Of course not. If none of them were met, probably, but I am confident that will not be the case. All reservation holders have some expectations for the car. I have expectations for the performance of my companies, my employees and even my kids. Not all of my expectations are met, as I tend to set the bar high, however I am also often pleasantly surprised on things that I did not expect.
     
  16. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    Moving on from wants and wishes, to what I think we've seen on the mules:

    - There is evidence of no rear view mirror, instead DRIVE PX or the like with perhaps 10-12 cameras
    - There is some speculation that the rear window might have an adaptive spoiler, for those who like such things
    - I wonder if the nose cone is gone
    - Perhaps not quite Q7, but still cross-over Audi Allroad like ground clearance
    - A two inch hitch for you in the U.S., likely the equivalent for Europe etc.
    - Model S like front interior without a protruding dash screen, also mostly glass ceiling, no bar between A pillars
    - High-up side cameras and all around views
    - Active lane keeping testing assumed to have been seen on the mules
    - Not seen on mules, but based on other info some solution for carrying skis

    Now, of course, we don't know what if anything these mean for production versions or if these spyings of mules are in any way accurate.
     
  17. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    #17 MaxK, May 8, 2015
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
    I was surprised how many of the auto-pilot "2" features were available from Bosch without the need for DRIVE PX. Based upon the videos, I would speculate that there is a lot of Bosch technology already in the S and the X. For example, the Automatic Lane Maintenance feature seems to be what the X mule was testing recently.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdtVe1Pnayg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDYFIGLbiZ4
     
  18. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    True. For automatic lane maintenance you don't really need anymore than the top front camera (like on Auto-Pilot and so many other cars for years already) and whatever you need for steering/braking etc., although Model X might be using front bumper cameras as well. Of course more sensors would give better situational awareness like radars seeing other cars behind, on the sides, front...
     
  19. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Well that escalated quickly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm going to attempt to explain, once again, since wow. Things appear to have been taken in the worst possible light.

    If we were to make a list of all the features of every car in a certain price range ... this manufacturer offers this tech, this other one offers these paint colors, this one offers this service package .. there is NO way we're going to be happy with whatever a particular manufacturer offers.

    That's ALL I was saying. But wow. Way to go for the personal attack. Just shaking my head.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Make lists as long as you want about what you want in a car. My point, again, was it is unfair to say that Manufacturer A should offer this because Manufacturer B offers it - while ignoring the unique features that Manufacturer A is offering. It was the rationale that I was commenting upon. Sorry you couldn't see that.

    And thanks John. And thanks to the nice tidal wave of positive rep :). Appears most of you understood what I was saying.
     
  20. MaxK

    MaxK Member

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    How is it unfair to compare to features that Manufacturer A should offer to those offered by Manufacturer B(and in my many cases C, D, E & F)? That is what car buyers do everyday.

    That comparison does not ignore the unique features of the Tesla, nor does it ignore the unique weaknesses of the Tesla (yes there are also unique weaknesses of the Tesla compared to other ICE luxury autos).

    Just because the Tesla is a real cool electric car that does 0-60 like nothing else, does not give it a pass on matching and exceeding other features that luxury car buyers might want / expect / be offered from competitors.

    I believe Tesla is an amazing company and believe much of this will be in the car. I also believe that after a much delayed 2 year wait and a $125,000 price tag, I am not unjust in expecting a luxury car to be competitive with other luxury cars - feature to feature. The unique benefits are the reason I reserved it in the first place and I decided I could overcome the unique weaknesses as well.
     

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