X pectations

[MaxK]

I think it's more realistic to acknowledge cost constraints than fault a company for not including features of similarly priced vehicles. The realities are that you're complaining about offerings at a certain price point from a company that has only truly existed in the market for 3 years.

As an objective buyer of a car, why should I care about how long Tesla has been in business? Either the car is comparable or not. No excuses. Justifying the lack of features in this way does not appeal to the typical luxury buyer. It appeals to the enthusiast or dare I say again, fanboy.

For the record, this thread about expectations for the X. So I am not complaining about anything. I have expectations for the X, which I believe Tesla will meet, or at least meet many of them and probably surprise me with other features that I did not expect.

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Disagree. Plenty of people here are critical of Tesla and they are rarely if ever shouted down. That kind of behavior isn't allowed. Sure, this is an enthusiast site so plenty of people who love their car will argue with someone and try to explain why they enjoy the car so much but that doesn't mean they lack intelligence or any objectivity as the 'fanboy' term implies.

Shouted down - no. Told to cancel their deposit and go away - yes.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

As an objective buyer of a car, why should I care about how long Tesla has been in business? Either the car is comparable or not. No excuses. Justifying the lack of features in this way does not appeal to the typical luxury buyer. It appeals to the enthusiast or dare I say again, fanboy.

This is exactly my point. You're being completely unrealistic.

It's not about caring, it's about what should be reasonably expected. Tesla can't offer luxury items at the same price-point of companies that have been longer in the business, and produce in greater numbers. How is this not obvious?

Tesla isn't building a luxury vehicle, they're building a performance EV that also comes with some luxury features. Again, ignoring the powertrain of a Tesla when considering the features it offers is ridiculous.

 

[MaxK]

This is exactly my point. You're being completely unrealistic.

It's not about caring, it's about what should be reasonably expected. Tesla can't offer luxury items at the same price-point of companies that have been longer in the business, and produce in greater numbers. How is this not obvious?

Tesla isn't building a luxury vehicle, they're building a performance EV that also comes with some luxury features. Again, ignoring the powertrain of a Tesla when considering the features it offers is ridiculous.

You are blinded by your love of all things Tesla. The product needs to stand on it's own, without regard to shortcomings of the company offering the product. A segment of the population will buy a product because the company has a special history, but that is a subset of the population.

It is not unrealistic for someone buying a product to only care about that specific product and to ignore any excuses caused by the weaknesses of said company. How do you not get that? Fanboy blindness syndrome?

Your arguments are incorrect. First, Tesla does not offer cars at the same price point as other luxury automakers! There is a substantial price premium. Substantial! They also have the ability to price these features as options at an additional cost. Again, your argument is ludicrous.

I am not sure Tesla would agree that they are not competing in the luxury car market and limiting themselves to some segment of the market called Performance EV.

If you read my analysis, you will see that I mention the positive and negative aspects of the powertrain. How is that ignoring the powertrain? Is your reading comprehension also limited by Fanboy blindness syndrome?

 

[dsm363]

Shouted down - no. Told to cancel their deposit and go away - yes.

Well there are people who come here and say they'll be miserable without feature X. I'd consider it good advice to cancel your order for a product that doesn't include a 'must have' feature. And people rarely do this anyway. That doesn't make everyone a 'fanboy' here with no objectivity and you the realist.

 

[dsm363]

You are blinded by your love of all things Tesla. The product needs to stand on it's own, without regard to shortcomings of the company offering the product. A segment of the population will buy a product because the company has a special history, but that is a subset of the population.

It is not unrealistic for someone buying a product to only care about that specific product and to ignore any excuses caused by the weaknesses of said company. How do you not get that? Fanboy blindness syndrome?

Your arguments are incorrect. First, Tesla does not offer cars at the same price point as other luxury automakers! There is a substantial price premium. Substantial! They also have the ability to price these features as options at an additional cost. Again, your argument is ludicrous.

I am not sure Tesla would agree that they are not competing in the luxury car market and limiting themselves to some segment of the market called Performance EV.

If you read my analysis, you will see that I mention the positive and negative aspects of the powertrain. How is that ignoring the powertrain? Is your reading comprehension also limited by Fanboy blindness syndrome?

Please stop insulting people.

Tesla has said they build 'premium' sedans. You should probably do a little research before insulting people. What John said is correct. Sure, in a perfect world Tesla would have every feature the top of the line S class has but Tesla doesn't have same size, experience or parts bin of a Mercedes. If you don't see that then not sure what to tell you.

Their cars will compete on features alone at some point but that takes time. That's all these 'fanboys' are saying.

 

[aja2460]

I've had my Model S for more than two years now. It doesn't have all the features that the car comes with now Am I happy, yes I am, it makes me smile every day. I have a reservation for a Model X and I'm expecting to be very pleasantly surprised. By the way, if the car were to come with all of the bells and whistles imaginable I probably won't be able to afford it.

 

[dsm363]

I've had my Model S for more than two years now. It doesn't have all the features that the car comes with now Am I happy, yes I am, it makes me smile every day. I have a reservation for a Model X and I'm expecting to be very pleasantly surprised. By the way, if the car were to come with all of the bells and whistles imaginable I probably won't be able to afford it.

Exactly. Tesla could include every feature right now but the car would probably cost tens of thousands more and there would likely be more bugs. It simply takes time to roll out new features. If the car doesn't have the features you want and if the EV drivetrain doesn't make up for those missing features then it isn't time to get the car. Saying that doesn't make on a 'fanboy' as some suggest.

 

[Merrill]

Me too, 24 months and could not be happier. Do not care about most of the new goodies and truthfully love the fact that the interior is clean and uncluttered. Do not like all that stuff that are in the high end luxury brands. Clean and simple like Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture. Some of his design is still current even 50 plus years later. I have a P85+ loaner and every time I drive into the garage it beeps and chimes, prefer no noise.

 

[DrGuest]

Politically correct - No. Reality - yes. We group people into groups everyday. Republican, Democrat. American, German. Liberal, Conservative. etc etc etc. This forum has been less than kind to anyone with even a neutral opinion of Tesla and I believe many on here would carry the term fanboy as a badge of honor.

I feel a Derogatory, Divisive, judgmental, name calling,"need to be considered right at others expense" kind of tone in this thread that feels disrespectful on a basic level and I would love to feel it begin to rise above that level real soon

 

[MaxK]

Sure those people exist but there are also people who think the drivetrain really is that important but understand that there are features lacking and just don't put as much weight on them as heads up displays and 360 degree cameras. That doesn't make them stupid or blinded by their absolute love for all things Tesla.

The people that are weighing the drivetrain and the features in the car and those features absent are making a sound decision. The weight any one person places on any feature, drivetrain or other, is their personal preference and I would never judge them for their personal choice. It is their money and will be their car!

The issue I have are people that want to justify the lack of features based upon some perceived weakness of Tesla or attack someone for simply expecting features on a $100,000+ luxury car. Or to tell people that want features, to just cancel their order. To want features is not a bad thing. Nor is the desire for features an absolute. Just because I want a feature or two or ten, does not mean the car is unacceptable, absent 1 of those features. Cooled seats do come pretty close to a 1 feature deal breaker.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I find it equally "curious" that people want a modern car - and then buy an ICE with "beeping stuff", as I do people who buy an EV without "beeping stuff". Both choices are archaic in their own way. ICE is an archaic choice, but lacking modern convenience and safety features is archaic too.

It isn't unreasonable to hope Model X to not be archaic. Suggesting people to cancel now for expecting that is unreasonable. Tesla may still catch up by Model X release. That said, it isn't unreasonable to say Tesla as a company has limitations on what they can make and ship. That, of course, is true as an explanation. Not so much as an excuse.

 

[MaxK]

Tesla has said they build 'premium' sedans.

How is a premium sedan different than a luxury automobile? How is a premium sedan equivalent to a Performance EV as John limited the Tesla segment. Performance EV is a sub-set of premium sedan and premium sedan is equal to luxury automobile. Research completed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

How is a premium sedan different than a luxury automobile? How is a premium sedan equivalent to a Performance EV as John limited the Tesla segment. Performance EV is a sub-set of premium sedan and premium sedan is equal to luxury automobile. Research completed.

Your argument will be summarily dismissed.

 

[ohmman]

How is a premium sedan different than a luxury automobile? How is a premium sedan equivalent to a Performance EV as John limited the Tesla segment. Performance EV is a sub-set of premium sedan and premium sedan is equal to luxury automobile. Research completed.

Can you quote your source for that research? I find them to be pretty loosely defined, but it's possible there's some kind of published hierarchy.

 

[dsm363]

The people that are weighing the drivetrain and the features in the car and those features absent are making a sound decision. The weight any one person places on any feature, drivetrain or other, is their personal preference and I would never judge them for their personal choice. It is their money and will be their car!

The issue I have are people that want to justify the lack of features based upon some perceived weakness of Tesla or attack someone for simply expecting features on a $100,000+ luxury car. Or to tell people that want features, to just cancel their order. To want features is not a bad thing. Nor is the desire for features an absolute. Just because I want a feature or two or ten, does not mean the car is unacceptable, absent 1 of those features. Cooled seats do come pretty close to a 1 feature deal breaker.

Show me all the posts where people told someone who really wants the car but really want a missing feature are told to cancel the order.

There is nothing wrong with expecting such features on a car costing this much. And it starts closer to $72,000 not $100,000 on what Tesla calls a premium car, not 'luxury' even though it's priced at that level.

And that's what I'm trying to say. Really wanting a feature that it 'should' have is fine and understandable and nothing wrong with that.

 

[dsm363]

How is a premium sedan different than a luxury automobile? How is a premium sedan equivalent to a Performance EV as John limited the Tesla segment. Performance EV is a sub-set of premium sedan and premium sedan is equal to luxury automobile. Research completed.

Well it's Tesla's acknowledgement that the car doesn't have all the luxury features that a 'luxury' car these days have but it outshines those same cars in other aspects.

 

[AnOutsider]

MaxK, I happen to agree with some of your views. There definitely tends to be a feeling of "giving a pass" or "apologizing" for Tesla on the forum, though it's natural since this is an enthusiast forum. I'd recommend toning it down though.

Yes, you're going to get an overwhelming number of people disagreeing and offering counter-points to most things negatively stated about the company and their cars, but the best thing to do (IMO) is make your point clear, concise and move on. Going back and forth only leads to negativity and then your points get lost in feelings of "he's a troll" (or worse) and get dismissed when ad hominem attacks get in the mix.

 

[MaxK]

Can you quote your source for that research? I find them to be pretty loosely defined, but it's possible there's some kind of published hierarchy.

The book of Common Sense. Page 1.

I am welcome to any research that contradicts my research.

 

[porc]

Lets not beat around the bush here:

The main advantages of ICE vehicles:

1) quick refueling times
2) Long range
3) Lower total cost of ownership

The main advantages of Electric cars:

1) Better, smoother acceleration
2) quiet
3) No pollution of the city

Neutral/debated aspects: Total Co2 put into the atmosphere.

I think the main reason why electric vehicles arent mainstream yet is because of their lack of range and cost. Thus if Tesla wants to crush the ICE thats the top focus.

Many people wont buy an electric car until it hits the 400-600 mile range (at current recharging speeds).

 

[JohnSnowNW]

You are blinded by your love of all things Tesla. The product needs to stand on it's own, without regard to shortcomings of the company offering the product. A segment of the population will buy a product because the company has a special history, but that is a subset of the population.

It is not unrealistic for someone buying a product to only care about that specific product and to ignore any excuses caused by the weaknesses of said company. How do you not get that? Fanboy blindness syndrome?

Your arguments are incorrect. First, Tesla does not offer cars at the same price point as other luxury automakers! There is a substantial price premium. Substantial! They also have the ability to price these features as options at an additional cost. Again, your argument is ludicrous.

I am not sure Tesla would agree that they are not competing in the luxury car market and limiting themselves to some segment of the market called Performance EV.

If you read my analysis, you will see that I mention the positive and negative aspects of the powertrain. How is that ignoring the powertrain? Is your reading comprehension also limited by Fanboy blindness syndrome?

I get it:

Common sense = fanboy.

Fine.